This one's written by Aaron Jacobs, another son of Michael Jacobs. The one he wrote before was "Girl Meets Money" which got a B- from me, which could be worse for a Jacobs scion script. I wish I could keep MJ's sons straight. Like, I want to have instant recall of who wrote what, and I want to know how old they all are, and I want to know which one played Toddler Josh, and which one played the kid from Eric Hollywood. But there's no information out there I can see, and their generic biblical names make it hard to keep track. All in all though, their episodes tend not to be high water marks for the series. They have a habit of being really heavy handed in terms of BMW references, since I'm sure they've seen it all many times, but not being really good at getting the tone right or telling a cohesive story, probably because they are not actually qualified to be writing a TV show and are taking gross advantage of nepotism. "Girl Meets Cory and Topanga" comes to mind.
I half wonder if MJ's just doing this show to give all his kids a first break into the industry.
Anyway, Riley and Lauren Jr. (aka Evan) are talking and Evan thinks he wants to be a sherpa. He does not. Yes, sherpas help people climb Mount Everest. How do they do this? They do it by climbing the mountain first, without a trail established ropes or anything, and clearing and establishing a trail, and setting up all the ropes that are just sitting there waiting for Western climbers to use. They then RE-CLIMB THE MOUNTAIN with their clients while shouldering unimaginably heavy loads of equipment so the western climbers don't have to. It's an unbelievably grueling existence, that basically only natives can handle because their bodies are more naturally acclimatized to the high altitude. What Evan means is that he wants to be a mountain climbing guide. You don't have to do any of that kind of stuff, you just help your clients climb the mountain.
What? Cory and Topanga were sitting in the room with them the whole time? And Evan was aware of it? Well, then that really... diminishes whatever (admittedly, already non-existent) romance was involved in Riley talking to this guy all night. Also, who cares? She and Lucas aren't dating. So, there's not even a situation here. How could Lucas be mad Riley likes another boy? He likes another girl. Also, it's weird how blatantly this is played like a caricature of the Cory/Lauren situation. Like, they're making a big joke out of it, I guess. I don't know. This isn't a very good show.
Also, I know I'm not the best gauge of teenage boys' cuteness, but Evan strikes me as weird-lookin'. Bring back what's his name. The kid I liked. You know who I mean. God, I can't remember his name even.
Maya had funny delivery for "I know you lose your mind over me in firelight, but can I sit down?" but I'm at the point that when it's at one of those dramatic scenes with the meaningful vague dialogue, I don't know what even the general point they're making is anymore.
What's up with Riley's outfit following this scene? The one with all the colors, red, yellow, blue, orange shirt with grey circle in the center, and pink pants? It looks like some sort of space suit from a Sci-Fi movie in the 1980s. I think it's supposed to be a sunrise she's rocking, but... yowza.
Meanwhile, you can open scenes with Josh reading all the newspapers you want, I still don't buy how old he's supposed to be.
What a bulllllllshit new explanation for why Maya was "pretending" to like Lucas. God, stop trying to pull new reasons out of your ass. Just drop the storyline if that's what you gotta do. Stop trying to act like this was a plan. You've never had a plan.
Isn't it the day? Why are they playing this game? Go. Go hike. It's nature weekend. Also, that whole scene was dumb. Nobody sounds like a person. Nobody sounds like a well-thought out storyline pawn either. This is bad. Stop answering questions before they read all the options. Stop having vague esoteric questions about what the right answer of a game is." "Read the next option." "How do you know there is one?" Shut the fuck up, you fake fictional fake people.
Oh, Maya loves Josh, I guess. Remember Josh from "Hasn't been on this show in a year?"
Ooh, Evan made up a question. Evan is eeeeeevil. Seriously, he delivered that so evil. I'm surprised he didn't cackle. It was played like a revelation that Evan-had-been-the-killer-all-along. "Hi, I'm Evan, your friendly mountain guide, BAHAHAHAHAHAA!"
"I don't like Lucas like that." "GAAAAAASP." Seriously, audience? Where did you think this was going?
Josh and Maya are presently only 2 years apart? Despite him being a Freshman in college and her being a Freshman in high school? Let's figure this out. "Girl Meets Master Plan" aired on January 16th, 2015 and featured Maya's 14th birthday. It may not take place on January 16th, but I do recall their being indications it was a wintertime episode. So, let's say January 2001 is when she was born. "My Baby Valentine" aired on February 12, 1999. But we know Josh has been aged somewhat, enough that he, realistically, needs to be a year older to have 2015-2016 be his senior year. But let's keep February, since why not? This makes him February 1998. Their birthdays are six weeks apart, Maya's being earlier, so Maya being born in January and Josh in February COULD add up.
However, this means this episode would need to take place in late January or early February 2017, with Maya as 16 and Josh as not-yet-19. This feels off. Also, I think we have a Christmas episode coming up. Sooo.... failure. What they should have done is not made Josh so old.
I read Christian's review before I started watching and I really don't want to watch this. I don't think Lucas is entitled to shit here. If he had ever once in his life just been straightforward about wanting to date Riley, I could- you know what, fuck it, I can't sit here and discuss this. I don't care about who these people date. If you do, that's fine, but you are going to be disappointed because none of the writers here care anymore. We cared once upon a time! Of course we did! We practically invented Lucaya. But I am long past the point of being able to give a crap.
I seriously hate the dialogue on this show. No one in the world talks like this. This conversation between Josh and Riley starts with "Why do we like the same boy?" "I'd be more surprised if you didn't." And ends with "Why do we like the same boy?" "You don't." ???????????????????????? WHAT? WHICH IS IT? I guess that's it, isn't it! That has always been the problem! The writers want both! They want the triangle because DRAMA, but they simultaneously want us to believe it's NOT A TRIANGLE because PROFOUND. Every episode they try to write it both ways, and every episode ends up being jumbled, garbled, crap.
This game is so unbearably cringey. I'm so sorry everyone, I'm sorry to the loyal readers who deserve better from me, but I have nothing good to say about this episode. I just want it to be over. Shut up Farkle, your girlfriend wants to bang Lucas.
I don't know how we got to this point, but the only character I want to hear anything from is Zay.
I agree with Christian, obviously, that this hand-waving away of Maya liking Lucas is complete nonsense. We know why she liked him, we know why he liked her, we watched it for two seasons and now they want to convince us that we didn't. Well, too bad, I know what I saw and I won't forget. Oh my God, it's the most convoluted plan about turning into Riley to protect her, is this Ocean's Eleven? When did Disney Channel start airing Death Note?
Dazzling photoshop work, I know.
Maya trolls Lucas a little bit, pretending that Lucas chose her, it's definitely the highlight of the episode. That's not saying much though. Christian is a braver man than I am trying to do the math on this "two years apart" thing. It just... it's so far from being possible, but this is a Michael Jacobs show. The wibbly wobblyness of time is just part of the deal.
It's overwhelming how much better Sabrina gets on with every guy in the cast. Maybe it's comfort from real life that Rowan just doesn't have yet? It almost feels like Rowan has never flirted with a guy except when she's playing Riley. That's probably not true, but she seems so... clenched all the time. I don't like watching it. She's great with Maya, she's great with her parents, but man. If Lucas's favorite thing is talking to Riley, he must have a boring ass life.
"But Sean!" I hear you yell, "But Sean! She's supposed to be the awkward one! Blah blah blah!" Yeah that's great, doesn't mean I wanna watch it.
I think I can hear adults in the audience cheering when Riley says "I do," which, by the way is just too too much. This show is always on 10. It never lets me breathe, we've always gotta be making such a big show.
Did Riley actually need to sprain her ankle for any of this to happen? She met Evan at night after the hike anyway. She's doing some SUPER, DEFINITELY PROFOUND speech about a leaf but it's just too much, it's on 10, it's a big show, and I can't breathe. You believe life knows what's best for you Riley? Is that why we spent an entire arc where YOU GUYS decide what's best for you? You didn't exactly leave shit up to fate when you drove Maya out to hang with Shawn. As always, the writers want it both ways. They want DESTINY, but also SEIZE THE DAY.
Also Evan wasn't actually a Lauren, he was a PUPPETMASTER! Because we couldn't, we just couldn't possibly get somewhere on this show without a puppetmaster.
Also he's Lauren's kid. Because of course he is! Honestly it's less of a stretch than Turner moving here to be whatever position he's in, or Farkle being Minkus's kid, or Shawn proposing to the mother of a main character. Honestly this is one of the lesser bullshits on this show.
At least, at least we're done.
I will withstand many mighty blows, steadfast against the wind, courageous in the presence of my enemies, tall with my brothers and sisters in arms, until we finally reach this finale. We will raise our flag high above the ruins and cry out, "Worth it!"
So let's paint the big picture of this episode. Lucas and Riley chose each other, Josh and Maya might happen someday, Evan sherpa'd the whole thing. I dislike all three of those things, but by far the biggest offender is the rewrite of Maya's attraction to Lucas, right, the Death Note plan, Inception or whatever. It's demonstrably untrue and worst of all it leaves a lot of viewers unsatisfied, myself included, because the reasons we all got on this hype train in the first place have been swept under the rug. Are they just not going to write Maya and Lucas's chemistry anymore? This sucks. We've all talked at length about how much we can learn about the characters, and how much fun we can have as viewers, from having the characters date around. But it sounds like they're using Josh as a loophole to have Maya not date anyone at all for the rest of the show. God, what the hell are we gonna do for another twenty episodes?
I never quite finished this episode. So let's power through. Riley and Lucas get together, he chooses her. He had another option, he liked her too, he mulled it over for a full year, she ended up rejecting him and recently announced she probably never liked him at all in the first place and now she's quasi-dating a college student, and so Lucas has now decided he's okay to date Riley, if she only mainly talks to him and just talks to other people a little bit because he's a secure western cowboy. AREN'T YOU LUCKY, RILEY? This is true love. L.F. + R.M. 4 Eva.
God, Cory and Topanga talk about Lauren now way more than they ever talked about her, like, in college. Get over it, guys. Lauren told her son to say hi. Say hi back. Don't be rude. She was important to you in your senior year of high school. You're both (probably) married, you both have teenaged children. Get over it. Be adults.
Episode Rating: D-
Episode MVP: Uriah Shelton did do a decent job in his scenes, I'll give it to them. But it's like being the Mayor of Shitsville-That-Is-Actively-On-Fire.
I sense deep anger in you Sean and Christian. Tread carefully friends. For anger leads to hate, and hate leads to the Dark Side.
ReplyDeleteOn second thought, turn to the Dark Side and learn Force Lightning because that'd be really awesome.
Yeah, this is largely bullshit. I think a lot of my frustration has to do with how drawn-out this is. This whole thing started when? Yearbook, right? Maya tried to be Riley, and learned that her classmates preferred Riley's ray of sunshine to Maya's biting sarcasm. Then two episodes later, we had "Creativity," where Maya took over for Riley as Leader of the Group.
If Uriah hadn't gotten hurt, and put Josh on the sidelines, we'd likely have been done with this mess. Remember, he was supposed to be in "New Year" and "Legacy," so with that, and if we'd gotten a condensed Maya-identity crisis in Season 2 (Did we really need "Money" or "Commonism"? At least "I Am Farkle" advanced the plot), a good chunk of this would be a lot more believable.
I never thought it was possible to hate a character that I am supposed to root for as much as I hate Friar. It was completely out-of-bounds for him to be so irrationally angry. He wasn't dating her at the time, and he seemed a little too defensive when he was confronted.
And Shipping and I are both LIVID about the conditions Friar set, about how the "important" talks should only be between him and Riley. Important is a relative term--what Riley thinks is trivial Friar could consider important, and vice versa. What happens if Riley talks about something she didn't think was important, and Friar gets angry? That's a recipe for trouble that is.
I've said it before, and Lord knows I'll say it again: Friar doesn't like Riley. He likes that she likes him. He likes being given undue praise and showered with affection.
Mercifully, the writers said on Twitter that "the wrong choices are being made," so I don't think either of these relationships is going to be around for long.
I enjoyed your reviews because they were hilarious and made me laugh! I agree that there were story plots that were unneeded like Riley and her ankle or maya doing her weird switcharoo, manipulation crap to get Riley and Lucas together, and how the show like you said is always at 10 and needs to bring it down a notch, and YES! These kids were never outside...good job Cory, you suck as mr. Nature teacher.
ReplyDeleteI did however love this episode! I am a Maya and josh fan and hated Lucas and Maya together. This episode reminded me and this is gonna doing ridiculously cheesy, the magic that is BMW. I need to trust even though certain things in the episode are dumb and for 12 year olds I need to remember the heart of the show that gave us GMW and things will work out in a way that makes sense. Maya and josh make sense...Maya not dating for two more years doesn't but her sticking with her crush does. Lucas and Riley make sense for the sole purpose they can be that annoying lovey couple that Cory always tried to be in BMW but secretly made us all want what he and topanga had.
So, I applaud this episode especially after the 1st part which was terrible because it reminded me of why I love the whole BMW/GMW saga.
Winner and A+ in this episode was josh for finally getting out of his head and realizing liking Maya does not make him a bad guy!
"I enjoyed your reviews because they were hilarious and made me laugh!"
DeleteI know right. I come here after like every episode, and find myself laughing so hard at their reviews.
Why is Maya not going to date for two years? Also, I didn't think Josh said, 2 years and then we can date. Josh was kind of vague about an actual time wasn't he? His point was right now the age difference was a big deal, but in the future, it wouldn't be. That future might be as long as 8 years away, when they are both out of college with careers.
DeleteI was going off the review when it said it gave the illusion Maya may not date because she wants to wait for josh, not saying it's actually going happen. I think the age difference was complete crap, there is so much more context to this family that Maya and josh being together is not a big deal. If they were complete strangers meeting, maybe...but being in this situation no way. I'm not saying they should date now, but the age difference shouldn't be the reason why maybe just letting josh do college is a better reason for me. And no, josh didn't say 'in two years' they just said that's the age difference...
DeleteI agree with Cryptid, I think Uriahs accident kinda forced them into this position. I think we would have gotten this in 'New Year' and 'Legacy' but hasty rewrites and reshoots were needed after he was injured.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Maya ever stopped liking Josh over Lucas but since they couldn't expressly mention Josh without having him there, they had to push this stupid triangle on us. Now that it's over it'll be interesting to get back to stuff that isn't triangle focused, like Shawns wedding which I think is next week, since the episode is 'Meets I Do'
I still think this show has a lot of potential and I hope that it isn't going to get cancelled, or if it does, it moves to a new network or even Netflix. What has hurt GMW are the Disney standards and practices neutering the show and I feel it could flourish if those strict guidelines are taken away from them
Still if Season 3 has to be the end, it seems like that finale is going to be an epic one, just for Alan and Eric being back!
That's my big question right now: is Season 3 the end? Because the HUGE reunion finale sure makes it seem that way. GMW is far from a perfect show, but I want it to last for one or two more seasons.
DeleteGood question Chris.
DeleteI'm not sure but I think this would be the last we see of the old BMW crowd sans Shawn and maybe Minkus.
Say goodbye to the old crew one last time to focus on the new kids?
We'll see.
I disliked Maya and Josh getting together most. The age difference isn't as big a deal so much as the life stages. He's a freshman in college and she's a freshman in high school. That's not okay, or appropriate. I don't even know what to say about it. Also, he was a counselor at the trip, and now he's dating one of the students. I didn't like the decision or the episode really.
ReplyDeleteCoupled with the fact that despite his appearance, he's still HER TEACHER'S BROTHER AND BEST FRIEND'S UNCLE.
DeleteHow is that anywhere approximately appropriate? How is that even remotely worthy of consideration? This is why "Tell-Tale Tot" pissed me off so much and this is one of the few aspects of the story that still doesn't sit well with me.
Had Josh been any other teenaged guy who was slightly older than Maya, this would be much better.
But I give props to Uriah, who manages to play off Sabrina's awkwardness with his own. He shows off a little bit of vulnerability which is sorely needed for some of the male characters.
You can't control who you like; so I don't have an issue with Maya. But Josh should be firmly against this, because of various reasons, not just the age. His niece's best friend, someone his brother treats like a daughter amongst them.
DeleteBut maybe, just maybe, Josh is saying 'maybe someday' because he knows what teenage girls are like. He knows that leave Maya alone for a few years, her attention may have turned elsewhere.
I hear you guys. But knowing this show, I think they explicitly meant they will date sometime in the future because Josh wanted to. And no, you can't help who you feel, but I can't help thinking that Maya probably felt deeper for Lucas than Josh. It seems like Topanga's crush on Eric almost. Everything she listed in Girl Meets Tell Tale Tot had to do with the Matthews family.
DeleteIt feels like everything is resetting to season one. Which is wrong. It should be growing. New scenarios should emerge. But Maya is smitten with Josh, and Riley's smitten with Lucas, Riley and Maya are unbreakable, and Farkle is awkward as ever. It's been two years. There should be more than this. Honestly, I'm hoping Josh and Maya lead to a big lesson and ultimately crash and burn. Otherwise, little girls will watch this and think it's okay. Just because Josh is a nice guy, doesn't mean all guys that age are.
I have considered the similarities to Topanga's crush. But at least when Eric confronted Topanga, she backed off. She was crushed, yeah, but she stopped. Maya hasn't. That is why I think one of the adults needs to step in.
DeleteExactly. Maya wasn't exactly right, either. He said no, several times, she should have backed off. But she is a kid still, so I get that much. Josh is being irresponsible though, even if he is just hoping her infatuation will fizzle out just by leading her on. This story line just makes me uncomfortable. I think that's why the writers tweeted about the characters making the wrong choices in SL2. I'm betting they got some backlash about Josh and Maya when it came out on the Disney app.
DeleteYeah, I can't criticise Maya though. I mean, Cory got borderline stalkerish in some of his break-ups with Topanga, and we're meant to go with "Your belief in our love is why we're here today", and Maya knows almost as much of their stories as Riley herself. But yes, I am not not a fan of the way Josh is treating this. To me, he's showing that he's not mature enough to deal with Maya's crush without help. That, and the first time this was confronted way back in season 1; Maya almost seemed to be doing it just as much because it was getting under Riley's skin as anything. Now it's a full-blown crush. It needs to get stopped, if not by Josh, than by probably either Topanga or Shawn. (Topanga for the similar experience, Shawn because she identifies with him better.)
DeleteYeah, I mean if they wanted the arc to end with Riley and Lucas, that doesn't mean they had to stick Maya off with Josh. I could see her dating around like Shawn did. But, just thinking of the fact that Josh was a counselor on the trip makes it pretty bad too. I think an adult definitely needs to step in and nip the relationship in the bud.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteNot that this wasn’t a highly enjoyable review, but I like them even more when they have stuff with which I disagree. I guess I liked some of the episode, but the thought of having to ponder and detail that fills me with inertia.
ReplyDeleteI’m pretty sure Sherpa is an ethnicity and not a vocation.
According to what I've read, while it is an ethnicity of folks from eastern Nepal, it is commonly used to mean mountain guide by others from outside the region. Both meanings appear to be acceptable.
DeleteTechnically, it's both.
DeleteSherpa refers to the nomadic peoples of the Himalayas, but it's also become a bit of a ubiquitous term for the mountain guides of the region.
Curiously, when used in context of a mountain guide, the term sherpa can refer to anyone regardless of their ethnicity.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteOkay, I see that now. But even in the more recent sense of the term, it seems to refer to people from the region. Maybe it's broader than that. Anyway, I think I would rather discuss the triangle than etymology, and will hang on to the believe that Evan was douchebag.
DeleteEvan didn't do much for me...puppet-mastery is not my favorite thing, unless it blows up in the puppeteer's face.
DeleteThat said, Milestones, what was your reaction to Friar? He made me far angrier than anything Evan did.
Cryptid, my friend, I didn't much like Friar this episode. You made some great points above. I have grown hesitant to form theories about what is to come based on things characters say and do. But, I agree this relationship might well be transitory. I'm hoping it is, actually, and not because I want to see him with Maya.
DeleteEvan's puppetmastery is worse than usual though; because.. um why? Why does he care so much? How does he even know enough about them, even after all night talking, to know exactly who belongs with who? Cory and Riley trying it is still annoying, but I can get why they're doing it.
DeleteDana Scott-Maya and Josh didn't get together. They are not dating. They may date in the future but for now they are going to be in each others lives as just friends.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOh I almost forgot. Christian, I'm fairly certain that "Master Plan" only aired in January because Shawn was still fresh in the minds of casual viewers, unfamiliar with Boy Meets World.
ReplyDeleteIt aired in January, but I'm certain it has to be set in at least April. It's bright and sunny, and Riley and Maya are wearing short sleeves. That indicates that warmer weather from my perspective--though as a New Englander, I wear short sleeves the second the weatherman says it'll be fifty degrees.
Katy did mention that Maya hadn't stopped talking about the trip upstate that happened after "Home for the Holidays," but I'm fairly certain it was explicitly stated that a fairly long amount time had passed.
I agree. Everyone in that episode came in from out of doors without a coat. This is just another episode of Jacobs not caring about continuity.
DeleteWould it have killed him to have someone on staff this time to deal with that sort of thing?
I'm not usually that concerned about continuity in regards to character ages, so long as important events are referenced accordingly.
DeleteI mean, Cory and Topanga had their first kiss when they were eleven. But then in "A Long Walk To Pittsburgh" Cory referred to it happening when they were thirteen, but he got the details of being pinned against his locker right, and those were what really mattered.
But you're right, it's worse here than it usually is, because the age difference has been an important plot point, to say nothing of Josh's birthday being a set point in time: Valentine's Day.
By comparison, Topanga's birthday has apparently jumped around--it was in November in "Sixteen Candles and Four Hundred Pound Men" (One of my favorite episodes) but in "Girl Meets Father," it is apparently much earlier in the year, because Cory specifically said it was over a hundred days from Cyclone Day, which has to be in late September.
I just want to say I'm glad that for once, I was able to beat you guys by getting my review up first. :)
ReplyDeleteNo, but in all seriousness, you two said everything that needed to be said. This episode was just awful to me. When I first saw it last week, I thought it might possibly be the worst episode in the history of the series. My opinion has softened slightly, but this is still as bad as the show has ever been. The idea that Maya only liked Lucas to protect Riley is asinine, ridiculous, and infuriating. When you tell these kinds of stories, it is out of nothing more than pure contempt for your audience. Just why do the writers think this is what people want to see? Is this really the high point of the show's capabilities?
I don't want to be Mr. Negative, but I kinda wish that the show just ended after this season. Let that monster season finale with the BMW cast be its swan song. It could have done better, but it didn't want to. This is Michael Jacobs' creative vision and I don't want to sit around and watch one more season of the writing staff making the same mistakes they have been making since season one. It's hopeless and it starts to make me wonder if this is even the best show on Disney Channel anymore.
It was fun while it lasted, but I'm not going to be in tears if the show doesn't get renewed. This season has just been an exercise in patience and I don't see things getting better any time soon. It's a shame that episodes like "Texas" are no longer standouts, they're just flukes.
Honestly, I think it will. I have no inside information, but just the vibe I'm getting from what I've been seeing as far as social media goes is that this will be it. And this show just doesn't feel like it's in the cultural zeitgeist anymore the way it was in Seasons 1 and 2.
DeleteAnd by "I think it will" I mean, I think it will end in this season. I do not think we're getting a Season 4.
DeleteI don't think so either. The one thing that makes me believe the rumors are true is the fact that this finale episode even exists, getting as many BMW members as they can just to say goodbye. I mean, it took Disney a while to even renew the show for a third season. If GMW was really that popular and in demand, why would they be so hesitant?
DeleteIn a parallel universe, someone did Girl Meets World justice and it was at least as enjoyable as the original series. Or maybe I'm just too much of a dreamer.
Mike Anderson-"In a parallel universe, someone did Girl Meets World justice and it was at least as enjoyable as the original series." I would say this blog counts as that parallel universe. I love that after a bad or weak episode, instead of just complaining, people on this blog share their ideas for how they would have improved the episode or tackled the same issue in a more effective manner.
DeleteKit, that's a really great way to look at this blog. You guys really get together to talk about the show and analyze it in a way that others will take for granted.
DeleteIt also makes it clear that everyone here just wants the series to be better. It's really not fun for me to constantly review all these weak episodes.
Honestly, I'm pretty patient with most episodes. Yeah, people have valid criticisms for them, but I'm not really sure the episodes would be really that bad, if compared to other shows geared at the same audience. It's just that when the episodes are good, they're -very- good, so when there's a return to mediocrity it's noticed more.
DeleteThe callbacks to BMW don't help either, as there's not a single character/relationship that holds up to the equivalent in the original show. (And I'm even ignoring the comparisons of same character when they have been around enough in both shows.)
If there's a parallel universe where there was five seasons and three movies for "Firefly," then I am confidant that there exists a good Girl Meets World.
DeleteCause the thing of it is, when this show is good, it is easily as good as its predecessor, or at least at an equivalent point in time for its predecessor.
But yeah, I think we've come up with some pretty good ideas for episodes, or at least ideas of how to make episodes a bit better.
Hey Cryptid, I loved Firefly.
DeleteI was puzzled to find myself besotted with GWM at this time last year. When it was good it was really good, and I caught it when it was maybe at its best. It clearly spent time being not all that good. But it was a kids’ show. I wasn’t expecting Masterpiece Theatre.
I don’t think it is spending any more time this year being not all that good. But last year, the bad stuff was usually incidental, a Topanga/Ava/Auggie B-story, or something stupid Cory said or did in class, or contained within throwaways like Fish or WOT2. This year, the bad stuff is often right in the meat of the episode. There were some amazing scenes in Ski Lodge 2, most of which came with an asterisk.
Clutter may be an issue. As much as I like Isadora, and have come to appreciate Zay, throw them in with Uncle Josh, BMW call-backs, extras doing more than being in the background, and Mr. Sherpa, and a kitchen-sink quality ensues.
I am always prepared to meet GWM halfway, but the walks have seemed longer this year.
As always Milestones, your insights bring much in the way of discussion. Glad to hear from you, friend.
DeleteThat's a fair point about clutter--this whole Ski Lodge two-parter was probably busier than it needed to be.
I'm very fond of Isadora, but she wasn't really needed in this episode--though I did miss her in the last batch of episodes.
I think, instead of a club trip, this should have just been a family trip. The Matthews (and Maya) and the Minkii (and Friar) go up to the lodge. It'd probably allow for a bit tighter story-telling. Maybe allow Riley and Maya to realize that Friar isn't worth it. Maybe, in that parallel dimension...
We're only a few days out from "I Do," and from what I hear, it's going to be good.
I don't think even that this series has more worse episodes than last. In fact, I think a greater proportion of this season's episodes have been good, it's just that the ones this year that haven't been good have been... -really- not good. And not good in a way that detracts from the entire show. I liked a lot of single scenes from this two-parter, or lines; but as a whole, the plot sucked. I -do- expect more from kids shows, but then, as a kid I watched Doctor Who (technically a kids show...), which had far superior writing than this has, overall.
DeleteYes, I think the best episodes of GMW are probably at least close enough to call a pass compared to the best episodes of BMW. But the average is lower, at the moment.
The issue with the clutter, is that there are too many characters that they want to give substantial screen time to. Having Isadora and Zay, and even Josh, in and of itself isn't the issue. It's that besides Riley and Maya, they seem to want to give substantial screen time to Lucas, Farkle, Cory, Auggie, and a fair amount to Topanga, and whoever of Zay and Isadora we have that week. -And- more and more, it feels, BMW callbacks/references. I don't object to any of this, except they can't cram it all in every, single, week, and get a good story. An episode with Shawn? Yeah, that could possibly have a BMW reference or callback, or even two. But one where Zay and Isadora have a greater presence? Maybe they could do without.
And Firefly is awesome, but it's only the second best sci-fi show.
Cryptid, my friend, sorry for not keeping up with the conversation…I really like your idea. The episodes needed at least a little streamlining, and it was weird that some of what should have been intimate talks between them had audiences.
DeleteThe way I would put it Will is, this year, what I like best and least about GMW have commingled more freely. The Riley/Friar scene near the end of this episode, with an unwelcome coda by Mr. Sherpa, might serve as a good example. I used to be able to let my mind wander when things weren’t going well.
I agree that BMW was more consistent and its average higher, but would go further in believing that GMW has had a higher ceiling, or packing more of an emotional punch, at least for me.
I never saw Dr. Who, and it may not have been available when I would have been most likely to start. The last kids' show I watched was Full House, about twenty or twenty-five years ago, and I didn’t so much watch as be in the room when kids were watching. That, and what I had seen of the other Disney shows, is where my expectations were set.
I guess I have more recently, like only ten or twelve years go, watched a show called Dark Oracle for at least a little while. I think it was actually pretty good but don’t really remember. I think sci-fi and fantasy have an advantage. A show in that vein could have done the Maya-is-Riley business with nothing to support it but a “ta-da” and nobody would have batted an eye.
Will, what was at the top of your sci-fi list?
Hmm. I'm not sure about emotional punch. I think maybe it -could- have, if they played with the Farkle/Isadora relationship a bit more.
DeleteBut you compare Cory/Topanga, even with all the issues Cory has sometimes, with Lucas/Riley, and I just cannot say I can be more emotionally invested in the latter. Or even in the same ballpark. I guess we haven't really seen enough yet, but despite the fact that Shawn got them together, he could also be a right pain-in-the-butt when in came to Cory/Topanga. Witness the wedding episode, and also the War/Seven the Hard Way two-parter. Yeah, it makes him annoying, but it makes more of an emotional impact for Shawn/Cory than Riley dating Lucas will be for Riley/Maya. We also -saw- Shawn's parents before they broke-up, so his mother leaving hurt more.
Top of my sci-fi list is, still Doctor Who; but the original series, which I had good access to living in Australia, but I have friends who tell me that you would really have had to hunt for it in the US or Canada back in the day. Now it's all the rage, but it's not really my show anymore. I also quite like Babylon 5 and Red Dwarf; but they were given the run Firefly never was (and should have been).
With regards to "emotional punch," Will, I think my friend Milestones was referring to how one's personal experiences can influence one's relative enjoyment of an episode.
DeleteFrom an individual episode standpoint, my own struggles in learning a foreign language for school led me to really enjoy "Permanent Record."
Speaking for myself, I don't watch much science fiction. But I read a LOT of fantasy and science fiction books. I just finished the NINTH Harry Dresden book and the new collaboration of John Ringo and Larry Correia.
Cryptid is right, I'm more susceptible to some of GMW's heart-string pulls. Knowing the outlines of Shawn's story before starting in on BMW had a bit of an immunizing effect too.
DeleteOn that score, I wasn't thinking about this episode in particular either. The Lucas/Riley scene was weird for me because I responded totally to Riley, and subsequent viewings have distanced me further from those underwhelmed by Rowan Blanchard's performance. But, I was also off put by Friar, and detested the business with Evan at the end.
"Back in the day" was way, way back for me.
I have the supreme advantage of being able to ignore what I know is coming, for the most part, so Shawn's story did still effect me. And for me, the fact that I don't like the characters in GMW as much meant that though the story -should- effect me just like that, it didn't. Permanent Record is particularly bad like that, because I was never the straight A student who struggled in languages. I was closer to the middle of the pack; so identified a lot more with Cory's issues than Riley's, even ignoring the fact that gender meant it was always going to be easier to identify with Cory.
DeleteWell, I was a teenager throughout the '90s, which I guess is "back in the day". Most other shows that came from the time period of this show I saw some of, BMW I didn't because back then, before digital TV and it's many stations, if it wasn't a hit from the first season, it wouldn't generally be shown in Australia. Thus, I did see Full House, Family Matters and the like, because they were successful from the start. At least here.
Man girl got her dream guy from the first episode. The journey to get to that sucked.
ReplyDeleteChristian's right. Evan is weird. He really should be the son of both Lauren and the Artsy boy Topanga dated for that episode.
Is next week the finale? That's a great cast photo. Bringing everyone special back. And Harley and Minkus.
No, next week is "I Do."
DeletePromo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW-89rESjuo
The finale is entitled "Girl Meets Goodbye." It might be the end, but I'm not so sure.
Next week is week off - week after is I Do
DeleteFor the record, Disney has come out and stated they haven't made a decision yet. It's true they may be lying to avoid criticism, but on this at least, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
DeleteBen Sandwich-Evan totally looks like he could be the son of the artistic boy Topanga dated.
DeleteShe did get him in the first episode. My question is, is there any meaningful growth at all in Riley since she dated Lucas the first time? We've literally already done this. They've kissed, they wanted to date. Aside from being a year older, have they changed in any meaningful way for it to be different this time? I can't think of anything.
DeleteThat's a good question, Sean.
DeleteHas there been meaningful growth from Riley or Friar?
Well, I think that largely depends on which dynamic we're looking at.
Riley's a lot more headstrong with her interactions with Maya now than she was throughout Season One or most of Season 2. In the Pilot, and for the first third of Season One, Riley did more or less whatever Maya said. This started changing around "Maya's Mother," with Riley and Maya butting heads more often, but for the most part, their dynamic is still an iron-clad partnership.
Moving on...what about Farkle? Riley has always seemed to be a bit more...let's say accepting of Farkle's...quirks than Maya--she often smiled at Farkle's "Haaaaaaaas" while Maya rolled her eyes. This has changed quite a bit--Farkle, for better or worse, has become a shoulder for Riley to cry on. While Farkle is definitely a polarizing character, there is little question that the dynamic between him and Riley has had quite a bit of growth. And this could end up being an issue, what with Friar's condition that Riley only have serious talks with him.
For the most part, I don't think that Riley has changed her dynamic with Friar very much. While she doesn't seem to have kept him on quite the pedestal she did early on, the dynamic is still very much the same. Riley gushes over Friar, while he relishes her affection.
But I think Friar has changed quite a bit, and not for the better. Remember "New World"? Friar said that terms like "boyfriend" and "girlfriend" were titles, just words that had little to do with how someone might actually feel. Now, there has been change. Friar is expecting quite a bit from Riley in this new relationship, with a level of exclusivity that was certainly not present in the beginning of the second season.
From where I'm standing, he has very specific ideas from what he wants in this--he wants Riley to talk to him and only him, when his ideal conversation is in the vein of the Library. When Friar spoke all about himself, with Riley hanging onto every word, while he didn't ask her a damn thing about herself.
I can't think of any reason why I should want to watch Riley date Friar, beyond a break-up that gives Riley tremendous growth, and leaves Friar a memory.
Weellll... maybe that's the point? Riley hasn't grown in regards to relationship issues, because she hasn't actually been in one? Shawn didn't really develop either in that sense, he just 'wanted what Cory and Topanga had'. Maybe Lucas is Riley's learning experience. Learning that there's more to a potential boyfriend than looks. Although Topanga wasn't really weird-looking anymore by the time they dated; Cory had been coming to the realisation regardless; though maybe his biggest moves in that regard came after they started dating.
DeleteWill van Roekel-That's a really interesting point. It would be great if Shawn could tell her to find her own path, instead of trying to follow her parents'. "Don't go looking for your one true love, he'll find you." Riley knows her relationship with Lucas may not be forever, but it still doesn't seem quite right.
DeleteShe -needs- to not try to follow her parents. Despite liking Corpanga; they need to be unique; or at least very rare. The one true love being your first real relationship is insane, but I accept it; because the chemistry works. But it shouldn't be repeated, and Riley needs to learn that. Auggie has been told. Tell Riley, the girl who's actually old enough to date.
DeleteSean- I think Lucas helped Riley gain more confidence, and Riley helped Lucas feel like a part of something good. Like Cory to Harley, she was his "good kid." But after season one, they couldn't really help each other any more than that. They even said it themselves "why do I need you?"
DeleteI have to completely disagree with you guys. I thought this was a great episode. After the show crashed and burned in the 2nd half of season 2, I didn't think it could redeem itself, but the last 2 eps plus this one, the show is rebuilding itself. I thought the Maya and Josh scenes were great. They really have chemistry, and I thought their scenes together were tender, sweet, funny, and honest. On the other hand, Riley and Lucas' scene was hard to watch because both actors seemed very awkward and unsure. Riley was painful to watch with her deer in the headlights approach to the scene. I don't know if Rowan is that horrible an actress, or a brilliant one. It's a fine line.
ReplyDeleteI also have to put in my 2 cents of opinion on this blog. It seems you guys can't reconcile what this show is and what it is not. It seems you want it to be "your" show- a sequel to BMW aimed at you, the original audience. This show is not that. It is a show aimed at kids. Sure, they have call backs for the original audience. They are welcome to come along for the ride. But is not "your" show. Never was, never will be. That's where all the bitterness and bad reviews come in. Listen, if Michael Jacobs doesn't take the whole BMW universe that seriously, there's no reason fans have to. That's the distinction between fan and fanatic. OK, lecture over.
On the contrary, I think the critical reviews that Sean and Christian post are completely justified. And I reject the label "bitter." We've all made it clear that we WANT the show to be good--go back a few weeks and check out "Jexica" and "Permanent Record."
DeleteThis is NOT "Full House Reviewed," which exists solely to make fun of the show in question.
Boy Meets World was something special to them. It was something special to most of us.
We watched the original show in syndication for fifteen years. We loved it. We saw what made it special.
There very likely wouldn't be a "Girl Meets World," if it weren't for the dedicated, veteran fans.
And when any individual work is the SEQUEL to another work, regardless of the medium, the people working on the sequel have the responsibility to make sure the sequel actually feels like a sequel. It has to capture the spirit of the original work.
New things can, and should, be done, in order to show growth and advancement and to avoid a simply re-hash. But the spirit has to be there.
That's why Sean, like so many of us, enjoyed "Jexica," because it felt like a shenanigan--watching Riley and Maya play with their computers felt like watching Cory and Shawn get into mischief.
For a great many episodes, this show has not felt like a sequel to Boy Meets World, and this episode is not much of an exception.
In case my point hasn't been made clear, Christian and Sean can write whatever the hell they want.
I enjoy these reviews, and I don't think they're geared too much towards wanting it to be a BMW sequel aimed at original fans. Much of the complaining here is more about the fact that the writing is ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE. Honestly if they weren't capturing the BMW feel but they at least had good stories and good characters, there'd be a lot less complaining here. These reviews even seem to call out GMW for being too heavy handed sometimes when it does reference BMW, they're not looking for it to obsess over the original fan base. of course the show is aimed at kids, but it should be aimed at them with good characters and good stories with subtle real lessons...i mean, maybe kids today like this particular garbage, but that doesn't mean it's good to feed it to them. it'd be nice to have it be more BMW thematically because that'd be good for the kids watching to have that kind of a show, but i'd settle for just having a good show with good characters that gives good lessons to kids.
DeleteI'm with cryptid on this one. In my comment I said that I am aware this show is for 12 year olds therefore I know it won't be exactly what I want. However, putting this on Disney was a brilliant marketing move because the parents of the kids grew up with BMW. It is very fair to want a legit sequel and I think Sean and Christian do a good job of understanding th fine line between a kids show and not losing again what I mentioned made BMW so good in the realm of a more for kids show, and what they stated is sometimes GMW misses the mark.
DeleteThat is an apt defense cryptid. We've been getting this exact criticism from day one, and I think anyone really paying attention to the reviews understands why it's not valid. We desperately, DESPERATELY want to love this show. But like anon said, the writing is just bad a lot of the time.
DeleteThe problem with that is they specifically marketed it as a sequel at us as well as our* kids. Even now they spend a large chunk of their time trying to appeal to the original audience. Juxtaposed with that, take the new (and now old) 90210. They spent a chunk of season 1 with callbacks to the original but completely abandoned that in season 2. They made it their own (regardless of whether it was good or not). My sister who never watched the original loved that show and I (who did watch and love the original) became a fan of it on its own merits.
DeleteEven now, GMW is shoehorning a ridiculous and undeveloped relationship to get those of us who love Shawn to watch.
If they don't want the the comparisons, they would phase out the references. These guys are 100% correct in their reviews. I watch soap operas, wrestling, shows on CW and Freeform (formerly ABC Family) and this is by far the most embarrassing to admit I watch.
*well, not my mine.
I wouldn't object to the callbacks, and haven't in the past, when they were at least vaguely amusing, or not so shoehorned in. The ones in this double-episode were by far, some of the worst. They may even top "Jennifer Bassett as Farkle's mum".
DeleteBut I don't think Shawn/Katy is particularly ridiculous. Despite how little we see Shawn, it's probably at least as developed as Lucas/Riley.
I also don't agree with their reviews all the time, but I can usually see their point on it. They are clearly not stating the opinions they have purely to bash the show.
Goodness knows we've disagreed with each other from time to time Sean, and sometimes I've been too harsh with my own criticism, but I am NOT going to stand by and let some stranger be so condescending.
DeleteThis show can be moralistic--not that BMW wasn't, but a lecture from Cory Matthews simply doesn't have the impact that it would from Alan Matthews or George Feeny.
And more to the point, sometimes the message seems not only ham-fisted but rather tacked on unnecessarily ("Popular" comes to mind, but I already ranted about how much I despise that one back in Christian's look-back in April).
And we spent a LONG time on this Triangle Arc, and the length of time hurt it badly, because it weakens the arguments the characters made in this episode. It's pretty apparent they meant for this to all be done in Season 2, but Uriah's injury threw them a curveball.
I could have bought a lot more of what they were selling if we were just ending Season 2.
Yeah, I'm sorry, I don't believe that criticism is apt. Of course, we'd like it to be a Boy Meets World sequel all about those characters and not about any of the new folks. But we never expected it to be that. And the best reviewed episodes this season ("Girl Meets Jexica" and "Girl Meets Permanent Record") had no connection to the original series whatsoever. They were just good episodes with good writing.
DeleteMore than anything, what Sean and I would like is for this to be a well-written, enjoyable show. Because it would make our job a lot easier. Yes, i's a show aimed at pre-teens and teens... but that doens't mean it has to be crappy. Boy Meets World was a show aimed at pre-teens and teens, and we loved it. Because it was just... better than this show is.
This show has real problems. Ain't none of them that Mr. Feeny doesn't show up more. If you like it, great. But to dismiss our very real criticisms (which, frankly, I think we've explained in our reviews at great length) as an inability or unwillingness to understand what the show is strikes me as you being unwilling to face those criticisms yourselves. It's simpler, cleaner, when the people who disagree with you are motivated by selfish, petty motives. But we are not. I'd ask you to give us the benefit of the doubt on that.
Anonymous-"Much of the complaining here is more about the fact that the writing is ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE. Honestly if they weren't capturing the BMW feel but they at least had good stories and good characters, there'd be a lot less complaining here." I totally agree with you. Most of the complaints aren't about the lack of classic BMW characters, but how poorly the show is written, and how flawed some of the ideas for the episodes are.
DeleteAs I said on Twitter, "That's how you put a bullet in a triangle." Under no circumstance could they write themselves out of this. Look, I've said it from the beginning, Josh and Maya was it from the jump. Why else do this? They are trying to course correct. And while this wasn't the best episode, Evan being Lauren's son pretty much drags it down at least a full letter grade, because apparently Michael Jacobs has lost the ability to be creative.
ReplyDeleteThis episode isn't great, not in the least. And Ski Lodge as a whole is something better off left in a back alley, but there were parts I did like. And yes, that includes the end scene with Riley and Lucas. I've said it before that I'm a sucker for sap, and that was sappy. I think Rowan played that exactly right for a girl her age. Nervous, excited with the right amount of being unsure about it. Lucas wasn't bad either. I'm happy we actually got to see something resembling emotion from Friar. Human emotion. Jealousy, anger, kindness, and a few others were all on display. And Riley called it in the end. Maya is her extraordinary relationship. The girls love each other, and that's all that really matters on this show. You know what, have them date. Go for it. It's the only relationship on this show that wouldn't feel monumentally either forced or rushed. Besides Farkle/Isadora.
Episode Grade: C. Just a meh episode for me. Super meh.
Ski Lodge Grade: D+
Episode MVP: Sabrina Carpenter. She was really the best thing about this episode. Rowan a close second.
I am a tremendous sap, but I despised the Friar and Riley scene. Or despised from a plot standpoint. I can't deny that the actors actually did an excellent job--it was awkward, but it actually worked this time.
DeleteSpeaking as a sap, I actually liked the Farkle/Isadora scenes. For as much as she "flirts" with Friar and Josh (And I'm still curious as to whether it's payback for Farkle kissing Maya's nose in "True Maya"), it's pretty clear to me that Farkle and Isadora adore one another.
Cryptid456-"Speaking as a sap, I actually liked the Farkle/Isadora scenes. For as much as she "flirts" with Friar and Josh (And I'm still curious as to whether it's payback for Farkle kissing Maya's nose in "True Maya"), it's pretty clear to me that Farkle and Isadora adore one another."
DeleteI am quite far from a sap, and the way I see it is that Farkle knows Isadora flirting with the other guys is just a game and doesn't mean anything. At the end of the day, they are a couple. They trust each other and understand each other.
I'm glad that you see the same thing I do, Kit. I always perceived Smackle's interactions with the guys as not actual flirting, but just a coy game she plays with them. Zay has no doubts that she's not serious because he's a joker, too.
DeleteAnd if it seems like she's going too far, we can handwave it with her Asperger Syndrome, where it makes sense that she can't easily perceive where the line is drawn.
Meh. I didn't hate this episode entirely; but it was a BS way of ending the Triangle. There are retcons and retcons; some I can live with (I can live with, for example, the retcon that Cory and Topanga were friends since very young), but some I can't (again, the retcon that they were dating at like 2, is just ridiculous). THe retcon that Maya never liked Lucas that way is one I really can't.
ReplyDeleteEvan being Lauren's son is actually not that bad; but the way it was discovered was. Lauren was always portrayed as someone who may have liked a boy who was in a serious relationship; but she never went out of her way to sabotage it - just let him know that she might like him too. But with the "My mum says hello", that makes her come across a lot nastier - she's telling her son, to tell someone she liked over 15 years ago, to say hi, when he was there with his wife, which was also the girl that he couldn't ditch for Lauren? That's fucked up.
I didn't even really object to Cory and Topanga staying up all night talking; though it does make me think it makes a much better resolution to the Lauren arc than we got. Though them being up all night talking, when Riley surely would have seen them not going to bed, would have been better if they'd been somewhere else talking.
And yes; Lucas reacting as he did about Evan is horrible. He reacted worse about Riley having a serious conversation with someone else, when they're not even dating, than Topanga did about finding out Cory lied in order to spend more time talking to Lauren. He almost acted worse than Topanga did about finding out Lauren actually kissed Cory, and Cory didn't tell her. Not even I can defend Lucas this time. Lucas, go to Hell. YOu have been a coward throughout this whole story. I can't even get minorly invested in a relationship with Lucas and Riley, not even to see Cory's reactions.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteFriar's response to Evan is actually rather alarming.
DeleteHe wasn't angry because Evan was effectively a stranger (which while more understandable, still doesn't hold up since Friar and Riley barely knew one another in "Girl Meets Boy"), he was angry because Riley had had an apparently deep conversation with a boy.
This could be really serious, and has actually been part of Friar's character since "Semi-formal," when he threw a tantrum over Riley /maybe/ going to the dance with Charlie.
"Important" and "deep" are relative terms, as I mentioned above. What Riley considers important, Friar may consider trivial, beneath his notice. And what Riley considers trivial, Friar may consider important.
But what happens if Riley has a "deep" conversation with Farkle and Friar gets angry about it? Farkle's one of Riley's best friends--is she supposed to stop talking about "important" things with him?
I hate Friar so much...I know I say that a lot, but it's not even hyperbolic anymore. I detest Friar. I have never felt this level of animosity towards a supposed protagonist before.
Will van Roekel-If Riley was really focused on the conversation, she may not have seen her parents head upstairs, if they had in fact gone upstairs.
DeleteCryptid456-I don't think Lucas would be upset about Riley talking to Farkle. He understands that Riley and Farkle are just friends. It would also be easier because Farkle has a girlfriend, and Lucas knows that Riley would never encourage Farkle to cheat on Isadora.
Cryptid - after this episode, I think I'm leaning towards your view on things with regards to Lucas. His response to Evan was scary. Maybe 'Texas' Friar isn't as far gone as he wants people to think.
DeleteI agree, his response was alarming and controlling and I didn't like how it came across, I'm not going to lie, abuser was a word that crossed my mind when Lucas freaked out that she talked to another guy. May be a strong word for a Disney show but that's how it came across.
DeleteCould that be where this story is going? I would be incredibly impressed (and amazed that it gets past the Executives) if Lucas' controlling tendencies are actually real, and that Riley ends up breaking up with him because of it. It would damage their relationship irreparably, shatter her whole "Disney prince" illusion she had of him for years, and make that be the huge lesson for the entire series.
DeleteBased on the track record of the writers, I doubt they're that clever. But that would definitely be a story that no Disney sitcom would have ever tread before...
I don't want to watch this show and start interpreting things that aren't there.
DeleteBut I do sense a very unsettling undercurrent with Friar and Riley that was never there before.
I don't recall exactly, but I'm fairly certain that neither Cory nor Topanga nor Josh were in the room when Friar was snapping and snarling at everyone. I also remember distinctly that he never actually apologized for almost losing his temper.
And what happens if Friar does lose his temper in an argument with Riley? "Rileytown" established that not only is he absurdly strong but he also has no qualms about hitting a girl--Riley's bully was stated to be a female classmate. What if Friar hits Riley? He's much bigger, he could hurt her very badly.
I don't think for a minute they'll go as far as making Friar physically abusive, but they may well address that the relationship is lopsided, with Riley devoting a lot more of her time supporting Friar and his interests than he in hers.
And wouldn't that be an interesting lesson to teach young girls these days, to pay attention to the signs of potentially abusive relationships?
DeleteYup. Especially as emotionally abusive is just as bad, and harder to pick up on, than physical abuse. And not really recognised as abuse my far, far too many.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeletePerhaps. Perhaps. And that's an excellent point, Will--emotional abuse is incredibly damaging and it often goes unrecognized.
DeleteI'm pretty sure they won't go very far with this, but this is definitely an issue that needs attention, and doesn't get it.
Or at least not in the way that it should. This sort of thing requires a very delicate touch. This issue is complicated, and should be treated as such.
Boy Meets World touched on it with "Dangerous Secret," and they did a respectable job with it. They emphasized that it was never the victim's fault, and acknowledged that there was no easy answer.
In an alternate world, I think this could have been a very good story for a competently-written Girl Meets World to cover.
As it stands now, what I do think is going to happen is something I've said for weeks; that we may see Farkle and Isadora act as foils to Friar and Riley.
There's something very sweet about Farkle and Isadora's relationship, and seeing two couples bounce off one another is something we haven't seen on this show yet.
It might be nice to see role reversal--if Riley has a problem with Friar and goes to Isadora for advice.
Yeah, there's no way they'll cover it with one of the main characters being the offender. It'd make a good twist though, and prove that we can't make judgements based on who's main cast or not.
DeleteThe irony is, I think that this particular issue would work better with main cast members.
DeleteUsually, when there's a handsome, new, not-very-nice boyfriend on a show, it's only for an episode. And he's only there to make the girl choose between dating him, or standing by her geeky friend.
If we spend a long time watching Riley wanting to become Friar's girlfriend, the girlfriend of the handsome, "Disney Prince," and then we see Friar isn't what we thought he was.
There are several lessons in there--that a person's heart matters far more than their looks, the difference between protective and possessive, that a relationship requires balance, and which behaviors are /never/ /ever/ acceptable.
It would be a very valuable message for everyone, especially young girls to learn. That, and they shouldn't date a "bad boy," because they think they can "change" him.
People may change people, but that can only go so far.
It'd work better if we could see -why- Riley liked him beyond his looks; but I get the point. I also think it would work better if at least one person saw through him; Maya would be the obvious choice there, but maybe one of the adults with life experience behind them might be just as good. (Not Josh though. I don't like him being the wise old mentor at all of 19.)
DeleteAnd I forgot to mention: The very end, with Riley and Maya talking, does suggest that Riley does realise how exceptionally lucky her parents were to meet each other, and actually have their first love be the one they could be with for the rest of their lives. She does seem to imply that she realises her and Lucas may not be forever - but they are for right now.
ReplyDeleteI haven't read the review as yet. Anyways, i do't care if i was in my own little world- I loved this episode. Honestly, i don't really remember what events occurred that weren't related to Uncle Boing. Can we have more of him please? I'd never been one to harp about the acting in this show, but WOW was there a difference between Josh+Maya interactions versus Lucas+Riley. Dang. Sigh. I'd have loved if random boy wasn't related to Lauren.
ReplyDeletewhy did Riley hand Lucas a dead leaf? It's pretty and everything, but i just kept thinking, what are you trying to say, girl?
its over!!!! This not-a-triangle is OVER! FINALLY!!!!
everything else aside, i definitely agree on the disparity between josh+maya scenes vs riley+lucas. very very different levels of acting.
DeleteHappy Sunday, guys.
ReplyDeleteLooks like we're getting episodes into 2017.
http://tvline.com/2016/07/29/girl-meets-world-not-cancelled-renewal-update-disney-channel/
Yeah, but read the article carefully. Season 3 is airing into 2017. So if we only have 21 episodes, and we've seen 9, we're going to have a rather extended break at some point. Season 4 is still up in the air.
DeleteDamn it. You know, it's times like this when I wish we were getting 30 episodes this season. Having twenty-one episodes instead of twelve over the next five months is much better.
DeleteYou're not wrong there. Twelve over 5 months is only just a bit better than one every two weeks on average. Twenty-one would be pretty close to one a week during that period.
DeleteThough if the lesser writing schedule could mean that we had more high-quality episodes, I can live with it. But we'll have to see on that one.
We get 3 more in August which brings us to 12. And past performance indicates that between Thanksgiving and New Years we will only see the Christmas episode on the first Friday in December. That leaves 8 episodes to show in September, October, November and January. Stretching it out further than that will be tough.
DeleteThis past year Disney has been ending their seasons in a shorter time period even though the shows have been getting the same number of episodes. Liv and Maddie crammed their 21 episodes into just 9 months. Stuck In the Middle premiered in February and finished its 21 episode run a week ago. I would assume GMW will finish in January this season.
SitM only got 17 episodes for its first season. 15-21 seems to be the norm for Disney shows now, compared to 21-30 only just a year ago.
DeleteAfter reading the review i am now reminded of the rest of the episode. Sigh. As i said, everything non-Boing related just fell short for me. The came was awful, Maya playing Lucas was cool but his reactions were were awful, i liked Zay reacting to Random Boy as Lucas did, as its a continuation of his implied crush on the girls that's been mentioned a few times. Oh wow, why do i have so much Lucas hate right now? Every scene he was in was awful- though it might be the writers fault and not the actors.
ReplyDeletei like Isadora, she and Zay remind me that this is supposed to be sitcom, not a drama.
Was it christian? Me too! I find the supposed cute boy to be lacking cuteness, as well.
I actually didn't mind this one. The explanation is pretty b.s but I can live with it if it means the not-triangle is finally over(?)
ReplyDeleteThe theory of Uriah causing the triangle to drag out as long as it did makes me curious.
Sabrina Carpenter shone in every scene.
Kind of unrelated to this particular episode but just as a comment about one of the issues y'all have with the show...
ReplyDeleteI had a English/Careers teacher that taught in the exact style of Cory Matthews. He'd teach us more about real-life stuff than the material he was suppose to teach us. I remember one time we had to do a math puzzle in our English class, similar to Cory. And his life lessons were often a stretch from what the actual material was about. He'd also cater the lessons to what was actually going on in our lives. I also had another English teacher that taught similarly in that style in my later years of high school. I learned more from those teachers than any others.
So I actually don't think the way Cory teaches is necessarily bad. It's an approach lots of good teachers use now a days. I think the issue is the type of subject he's suppose to teach, and particularly the events of history he is teaching. English teachers have a lot more flexibility to kinda just do whatever. There are ways to tie history to current events, but the way gmw does it is a bigggg stretch. I think their biggest miss was their version of communism. They explained what communism was, but a better story would be about McCarthyism and why people were so overly cautious and paranoid over who could be a communist. When I first learned about it, my entire class didn't understand the fear and paranoia of communism. It wasn't until my history teacher made us play a real-life game that rewarded you extra credit for all of us to completely put ourselves in the shoes of the Red Scare era. That would have been an AMAZING plot line that could teach kids about McCarthyism, the right way.
So I don't think it's exactly bad that Cory caters to his students real life problems , but because he's teaching history, he can't just randomly choose what lesson he's going to tie it with. With English, however, that is more open to do that.
That's just my opinion tho
right except he only cares about four of his students
DeleteAnd often, he's less teaching, and more like just having a conversation with the four of them about their social lives rather than even pretending to teach anything.
DeleteBrianna Jones-I totally agree with you about how poorly executed the communism episode was. I had an idea for how the episode could have been better. The episode starts after class. Riley, Maya, and Farkle are in the classroom. Cory knows based on the test score that Maya cheated off Farkle's answers. Because Corey is smarter in my version, he also knows that Riley was involved. She either saw them cheat and didn't say anything, or she helped them cheat.
DeleteMaya and Farkle are both getting an F. If Riley confesses what she saw, her test score will stay the same. If she does not, she will get an F. It basically sets up a HUAC situation (save yourself, but at the expense of your friends. Save your friends, and you suffer consequences).
Lucas tells her to be honest about what she saw. Farkle and Maya want her to keep silent. It would be great, because we could see the kids divided and on different sides. (yes I reposted this from Commonism, but it felt relevant to the topic at hand.)
The problem with Cory as a teacher; is actually that he just shouldn't be teaching his kid. It's just a mistake. I have seen enough from him to suggest that if Riley and her friends weren't in his class, he'd be an okay teacher. Not a Feeney, or even a Turner, but not terrible.
DeleteCory is not a good teacher, spending far too much time directing attention towards his daughter and her friends.
DeleteAs Christian said, it's often little more than chit-chat. And he often gets basic information wrong.
And more to the point, because we spend so much time on Cory the Teacher, we don't get to see Cory the Dorky Dad very often. Everybody loves Cory the Dorky Dad.
I think Cory would make an okay English teacher, because even with his biases, as long as he's producing books and short stories for his class to read and study, then his class still gets relevant material.
And my English classes were always a bit more chit-chattier than my History classes.
But I think, that if Cory had any other position than Dorky Dad, it should have been running the teen hang-out. Not a bakery, necessarily, but a pizzeria or a sit-down burger place, where he gave advice over the counter.
"If Cory had any other position than Dorky Dad, it should have been running the teen hang-out. Not a bakery, necessarily, but a pizzeria or a sit-down burger place, where he gave advice over the counter."
DeleteI would totally watch this version of GMW. In this version, Frankie could be the teacher (English/Lit,), or make Harper a more important character.
I really like the idea of him not being the teacher!!! Honestly they should of went that route.
DeleteI hated the whole Maya reason thing. And I hated how Josh was made into a wize old guru. But I loved the ending. Mostly because it means we can move on. I'd thought that you'd be more happy about that. And Riley even said "who knows how long it's gonna last", which makes me hopeful that we will see some dating around.
ReplyDeleteEvi-I liked that too. Riley knows she and Lucas may not be together forever, but they're together for now, and that makes her happy.
DeleteThis is one of those times where I care less about the journey and care more about the result.
DeleteI'm just glad the elephant in the room is shot, even if it wasn't shot cleanly. I'm happy that we can move on to other plots that don't always circle this one point over and over again.
I get more entertainment from Christian and Sean than I ever get from this show.
ReplyDeleteAs always, thank you gentlemen.
My review:
Fuck this show.
Fuck these writers.
Fuck, I feel bad for the actors.
Now, if anyone needs me, I'll be reading Harry Potter and the Cursed Child.
Harry Potter and the what? Why am i just hearing about this? Excuse me while i go get this
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteGot Cursed Child. Finished Cursed Child in about three hours. Not sure whether I love or hate Cursed Child. Not sure whether I want my money back for Cursed Child.
DeleteYou know, sometimes I think Shipping is right about the futility of his buying me books.
Speaking as a former teenage girl, cuteness is relative/in the eye of the beholder.
ReplyDeleteJosh and Maya are three years apart. Maybe someone started school early, or it has to do with when someone's birthday falls that determines when they start school.
I'm just glad the triangle's over. It took way too long to end it, but I'm just happy that it's over.
I like the idea that Josh and Maya might happen someday. Josh recognizes that Maya is too young for him now, and doesn't want to lead her on and make her think she stands a chance when she doesn't. Maya didn't throw a fit about the fact that right now, 3 years is a huge difference. It seems like Maya is free to date other people. She knows Josh isn't happening anytime soon, so what's stopping her from dating other people? I love the idea of contrasting Lucas and Riley as a couple, with Maya dating different guys.
Good idea. There's a lot of ways they could contrast those and play with the situation. We will now have two couples (Rucas and Farkle duo) and two single people (Maya and Zay). I'd also like to see them explore the first real relationship in the show, them having arguments, etc. So far all we've had was friendship and crushes. Now we can finally get into dating and relationships. They could have a pile of good stories there. Hoping for the best.
DeleteWatched it again, and liked it better. Being prepared for the intrusive audience noise helped, as did isolating my very negative reaction to the Evan character.
ReplyDeleteEvan was still like a scratch on a record, a smug, self-important scratch. Having a character self-identify as a mystical guide is something Community might have done, but Evan did so in earnest, and then he proceeded in earnest to go about being a mystical guide.
After gaging the first time, I swallowed the contrivance that allowed Josh to be four years ahead of Maya in educational level but, for the moment, only two years older. I liked that they didn’t become a romantic couple…yet. The only difference between now and Season 2 is that Josh is saying “someday” too.
There was still the hand-holding business. The scene was so effectively done, it muted discomfort that should have been stronger. I suppose he qualifies for a close-in-age exemption, and it was fairly innocuous as physical contact goes. And, like a Christian, I have trouble buying this 19-year-old as a 19-year-old. But, Dana Scott above makes a valid point about this. He was there as adult supervision, and she was a minor ostensibly in his care. The scene really had no business working as well as it did, or at all.
I liked Isadora and Farkle even on a first viewing, but might not have picked up on the bit about her comfort level with being embraced by him and its resonance with the start of their relationship. So I liked them better.
Friar is another matter, and my thoughts on him in recent episodes have aligned more closely with my friend Cryptid’s. Remembering jackass moments from my own past did help moderate my response somewhat from what it had initially been. I also enjoyed his “I don’t like that you know anything” line.
I have trouble telling when the show is firing for effect. Were the things Friar did and said in this episode intended to reveal anything about the character? Do they matter as little to his standing as boyfriend material as some of the things Maya has said and done matter to her standing as someone who has “always protected” Riley? When they were doing the Maya-became-Riley-and-went-with-Friar-to-protect-Riley business, I had a flicker of hope it would turn out she had found him unfit for Riley.
At the very least, when he was grumbling about Riley’s conversation, they could have had Maya point out that he was, at that very moment, in conversation with a girl who wasn’t Riley.
On my first viewing, I had so soured on the episode that the Riley/Maya scenes seemed like the desiccated husk of the entity that had dragged me forcibly into GMW. Subsequently, they were a highlight.
I agree wholeheartedly with the superlatives directed at Sabrina Carpenter. I would stick up for Rowan Blanchard too. She had a much harder row to hoe.
Apropos the discussion above about the nature of the blog: I am as much a GMW apologist as anybody who frequents the comment sections, have no quarrels with Christian’s and Sean’s approach, and have greatly appreciated and enjoyed their reviews. If I graded episodes of the show, it would be on a mighty curve, and, looking at its stablemates, I continue to marvel when GMW does anything at all to interest or affect me, and that snot isn’t part of its comedic arsenal. They expect more.
"There was still the hand-holding business. The scene was so effectively done, it muted discomfort that should have been stronger. I suppose he qualifies for a close-in-age exemption, and it was fairly innocuous as physical contact goes. And, like a Christian, I have trouble buying this 19-year-old as a 19-year-old. But, Dana Scott above makes a valid point about this. He was there as adult supervision, and she was a minor ostensibly in his care. The scene really had no business working as well as it did, or at all."
DeleteI agree with this wholeheartedly. The dialogue before the reveal took a lot of the weight out of what could have been a scene that could have sucked all the air out of the episode. Sure, there are a lot of mental gymnastics that have to be played with to be ok with them as a couple, but that scene alone was pitch perfect for what they had to do.
Milestones, you and Dana bring up a very good point--Josh was an adult chaperone, for a school sponsored event. There's a line of iffiness there for sure.
DeleteBut something I noticed that while the Nature Club was omnipresent in the first episode, they were nowhere to be seen here apart from a couple of extras on the staircase when everyone was waking up.
It makes me wonder why the Writers didn't just turn this into a family weekend. The Matthews (and Maya) and the Minkii (and Friar and Zay) go up to the mountains for a weekend.
I'm just thinking out loud here, but the thought stuck in my head.
Also, completely agree with you about Farkle and Isadora. Their scenes were actually quite sweet.
Most likely because they couldn't get the older Minkii for the episode.
DeleteBut the issues of getting cast aside, I would have preferred that. Maybe have Minkus pay for it, which then explains why not all the adults are there. I don't really think Zay added anything to this set of episodes though; so I could have lived without him this time.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI don't get all the hate for "Ski Lodge". Along with "Upstate", they are the best episodes of season 3, and arguably the best episodes since "Hurricane". The highlight was the Maya and Josh scenes. The two characters interacted perfectly. Of course, since I expressed an opinion opposite to the majority here, I'm sure all the regular posters will now dog pile on top of me and bully me into silence, as it seems to be the norm here for minority opinions. smh.
ReplyDeleteWould you people stop it? We're not looking to bully or dog pile people here!
DeleteWe want discussion. You're the one inciting confrontation.
You like this episode? Why don't you elaborate? Tell us WHY you liked this episode! Why did you like Riley agreeing to date Friar? Why did you like Evan's puppet-mastery? Why did you like the conclusion Maya came to about not ever liking Friar in the first place?
Even Sean agreed that, although he disliked the plot point, the Josh/Maya scenes were highlights in actual acting performances.
And the regulars disagree with one another all the time!
You say you "don't get all the hate," well I think I explained my criticism pretty well. You are more than welcome to explain what parts of it you don't understand. It seems like everyone in the comments agrees that Sabrina and Uriah gave good performances. I agree with Cryptid, you're the one being confrontational.
DeleteOh boo hoo! Playing the victim already. If you actually took the time to read the comments, you'd notice there is actually a fair amount of disagreement on this episode among our regular commenters, but of course, that doesn't fit into your pouting narrative now does it?
DeleteWe like to dissect and discuss these episodes down to the minutiae, and as you can tell, we like to have long winded discussions about such. We aren't going to dog pile on you, we are going to ask you to give explanations as to why you liked and disliked what you did. The problem is when someone such as yourself wants to come in, off-handedly shit on what we do around here, then preemptively complain that we aren't fair. Then that's a problem.
So, you wanna try that again, or no?
Whilst I don't think I've ever totally loved an episode the majority here have hated; I've disagreed with specific criticisms in most.
DeleteI have never thought this was run like a dictatorship, where different thoughts were frowned upon.
Also, disagreements make for stronger friendships, whether virtual or real. Of course, with my family, I tend to like nothing more than a good argument; just make sure to keep it on the right side of civility.
Hi Beth. I'm genuinely curious. Part 2 I can understand liking even if I didn't but can you explain more about Part 1 being good? Upstate was pretty decent but what about Jexica or Permanent Record. Those are my favorites this season. I'm just wondering if you don't mind elaborating a little bit.
DeleteGuys, don't bother responding to Beth C., Sean and I have had her killed.
DeleteLet her execution serve as warning to all who would oppose us.
DeleteI actually think him being Lauren's son is completely plausible. Maybe it's a kind of family business or he got his interest in the field from his mom. There's probably not a lot of stuff people can do in that mountain area anyway. If Lauren got married and didn't move away, this is where I'd expect her child to go for a part time job.
ReplyDeleteYeah, him being Lauren's son isn't really a problem, but she has to be involved with the lodge in some way, for her to know that Cory would be in the area, and to get her son to pass on a message.
DeleteBut thinking more on it; and I have to agree. Topanga (especially) seems bitterer now about Cory's brief fling (if that!) now, than she did when the wounds would have been fresh. Cory... well, it's not out of the question that Cory resents Lauren. It's Cory, and that's kinda what he does.
I agree that it really doesn't bother me that he's Lauren's son. It's dumb he gets involved but it makes sense that Lauren stayed in the area.
DeleteThat said, Topanga and Cory bugged me. I've never had anything serious but there's not a single girl I liked in high school who I would not say hi to if I saw them. There's at least one where we get along better now, years later.
Grow up, Corpanga. Your relationship doesn't give you the right to be impolite.
Yeah. They were practically running away from a "hi" that she didn't even give in person. I'd thought that they're more secure as a couple.
DeleteThe writers make so much references, but they can't do the thing that matters most to me - do justice to the original characters, especially Topanga. She was more mature as a teenager than she's now.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteNot a very good episode. Actually, I agree with you guys: a terrible episode. A sloppy ending to a more sloppy storyline.
ReplyDeleteUnless...
So, I'm an admitted Rilaya fan (I won't call myself a shipper because I'm in my 20's and not incredibly invested in a show for kids 10 years younger than me, so I'll leave the Twitter hashtags and ship wars to the younguns). The actual plot of this show usually leaves something to be desired, so a lot of the time, I just pretend in my little head that all of it is leading to a Rilaya endgame. And to be honest, the last four episodes or so (maybe ignoring True Maya) are a lot better if you read Maya's foray into "turning into Riley" as a panicked reaction to not liking boys. She was scared of who she was, so she did the only thing she knew how to do: "like" the same boy her best friend liked.
Watching it, I was on the edge of my seat. I knew they weren't going to do it (Disney can't have two women stand next to each other in a movie trailer without everyone screaming about the Gay Agenda) but it was incredible to watch unfold. Watch the first half of the episode again with this is mind. It feels deliberate: Maya almost gets kissed by Lucas so she... pours a smoothie on his head. Riley asks Josh, "When do you start to understand your own feelings?" Maya has been "going through some stuff" lately, "why would someone give up who they are to be more like someone else," "you don't like the same boy." I'm watching it and screaming at the screen: Why would someone give up who they are? Because they don't LIKE who they are. Because they want to be "normal." Because because because...
Why did Maya fall for her best friend's guy, even though they're supposed to be perfect friends? The answer the show gave was weak, and shallow, and not grounded in reality. But Maya liking unavailable guys as a defense mechanism - boys who are too old, or already involved with someone - so she doesn't have to actually BE with any of them: that's something girls struggling with their sexuality do all the time.
Part of me wonders if that's where they wanted the story to go, but it got pulled due to all the backlash over the "gay moms" in Finding Dory and #GiveElsaAGirlfriend. Maybe it's giving the writers too much credit, but I really feel like this story would have made the show better, and provided more depth and believability to a story that in the end was just ship bait.
You know, this is absolutely plausible. In fact, its more coherent than anything the writers have come up with. I said it after this episode, Riley and Maya should date. They are the only pairing that doesn't insult my intelligence.
DeleteI think the triangle being an actual triangle; whatever the end result, would have been better. If you're going to go for a controversial plot, go with it all the way.
DeleteThough I don't disagree with the idea of Maya/Riley, I don't think the writers would have gone there even if allowed. In BMW they at least teased the idea of Shawn/Cory, even though it was quite clear it was never happening; here they haven't even done that, so I don't think it's on their radar.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSo I was on the Writer's Twitter a few minutes ago, and there was a new tweet. A re-tweet really, apparently there was an editorial they really liked.
ReplyDelete"A wonderful explanation of our 'triangle' episodes:
'Girl Meets World' is a Feminist Triumph via Bustle:
http://www.bustle.com/articles/175843-how-girl-meets-world-quietly-became-one-of-tvs-most-feminist-shows
I read the whole article. I need some time to better articulate my thoughts in response.
But, suffice to say, I don't think this author has been watching the same show we have.
The core point of this article is absolutely true. However, it does not excuse (or even try to make sense of) the sub-par plotting that got us to that last scene.
DeleteGranted, will the majority of this show's target audience care about the plot not making a ton of sense? Honestly, probably not. But ultimately, the show still has to be judged as a, you know, show.
So yes, that final scene was absolutely a great demonstration of feminism, but it doesn't change the fact that it would have been an even stronger moment to absorb if the journey to get there had felt more cohesive.
Except... that final scene was a great demonstration about friendship. The fact it's two girls there doesn't make it feminist.
DeleteYou could have had two guys there, and not changed a line. Lucas/Zay for example. Now, there are elements of the show that show feminism, I just don't think anything related to the Triangle has. It's been about life-long friendships being more important than a romance. Even a life-long romance could only claim being as important; not more so.
I have to agree with Will-powerful platonic friendship between two people of the same sex dates back to ancient stories: the Epic of Gilgamesh, for one.
DeleteAnd I would agree that nothing related to the Triangle is particularly feminist.
Riley and Maya waited for Friar to respond for a YEAR.
Why didn't they throw up their hands and say "Enough! You don't like either of us enough! Neither of us is ever going to date you!"
And they've mentioned how friendship is the most important thing to them. However good the tag scene was this time, it was hardly new ground for this episode.
Aside from that, this article didn't do a very good job convincing me of its argument, due in large part to what it actually argued.
The author praised a lot of the more moralistic episodes--and completely ignored their structural flaws.
I agree there was nothing ground-breaking about that tag. For starters; it's a story that was told endlessly throughout BMW, though it trailed off in the last couple of seasons, due to a greater focus on Cory/Topanga. (For better or worse).
DeleteI think I have previously indicated that while I probably am a feminist, I'm not a reliable one, and certainly not the most likely to correctly assess what does and doesn't constitute feminism.
DeleteStill, unless I misunderstand the Gilgamesh and BMW references, you are talking about male friendships. I do think that, to falsify the premise that the portrayal of the Riley/Maya friendship is feminist, we need examples where a female friendship was the central organizing element and wasn't itself regarded as feminist. I'm sure there must be some, but I can't think of any.
Milestones raises an excellent point.
DeleteSeeing as I cannot accept, at face-value anyway, the arguments this article made, it does make me curious:
Are there works, in any sort of medium, that are legitimate examples of a female friendship being the dominant relationship?
It's not that I don't think that the Riley/Maya friendship is indeed the most important one to this story, but this Triangle nonsense sucked a lot of life out of it.
What would it be like without a Triangle? What stories are there, where there is no overwhelming romance to get in the way of the friendships?
I'm racking my brains and dove into TV Tropes to try and find examples.
The closest I could think of was from the Book of Ruth.
While romance is definitely a major theme of the book, the prologue makes it clear that the widowed Ruth is completely devoted to her grieving mother-in-law, Naomi.
But that's more mother-daughter relations, which while hugely important and almost always overlooked in most media.
Yeah, Cryptid, any of the few examples I can think of I find a reason to exclude. By comparison, it would easy to compile a lengthy list of “bromance” vehicles, to include those that explicitly place male bonding above romance, if they don’t all do that already. If GMW isn’t breaking new ground with Riley/Maya, they are almost certainly in rarefied company, which might thus make it feminist. At least, I would be open to the argument.
DeleteI might have to come back to the Triangle. The thought of it instantly calcifies my brain. But I’m starting to think it might good for me to fight through it when that happens, even if it results in another of those saga-length comments I’m trying eliminate from my repertoire. With no new episode this week, you, me and Will might have the place to ourselves for awhile anyway.
For those who watched, I think the best example of a female relationship is Xena and Gabrielle from Xena: Warrior Princess. Lesbian overtones aside, that was one of the strongest female friendships on TV.
DeleteYeah, there was Xena and Gabrielle. I barely picked up on the lesbian undertones when I watched it; except for a episode here or there. Not saying they weren't there, but it wasn't in-your-face about it.
DeleteOkay, so there's a VERY valid point about there being a shocking lack of shows and movies where a two-girl platonic friendship was far and away the most dominant relationship. Not sure I'd go so far as to call it a display of feminism, though.
DeleteAnd I still find myself at odds with the article--Riley and Maya's friendship was mentioned as one a list of many things this show does well.
It praised the after-school specials we were all...ambivalent, at best, on last autumn. Those episodes all had very real flaws, some more than others. Some of the episodes' flaws were mostly story-structure, but a couple times the message itself was actually part of the problem.
But the author of the article doesn't seem to care.
And that's wrong, in my opinion. Just having something special or important in an episode isn't enough. The episode has to be good in its own right.
Yeah, but just because a two-girl platonic friendship is rare, doesn't make that there is one as inherently feminist. To be honest, Riley, especially, isn't a good example, because this storyline has trod very close to "She needs a man/boy to be truly happy". And this triangle, whether it was one or not, weakened Maya a bit in that regard.
DeleteOddly, Girl Meets STEM, a pretty terrible episode, is one of the few where I can see a feminist message shining through strongly. It's a pity that most of the episode seemed to say "to be a feminist, we have to be at war with men".
"STEM" has its share of weakness , but most of them are typical of the show's story structure: the teacher lacks a backbone, so there's little in the way of classroom discipline; the lesson itself is too wide-ranging and heavy-handed.
DeleteWhat's really frustrating is that "STEM" actually gets a lot closer than many of the message episodes for this episode.
There were a handful of episodes on Boy Meets World that can fairly be called "feminist." "Wake Up Little Cory" and "Chick Like Me" are both excellent. And an important reason why is that the lesson is a bit more...singular. Individuals learned individual lessons, and it worked for the better.
"Wake Up Little Cory" featured Cory learning uncomfortable truths about the double standard about promiscuity, and it very nearly cost him his friendship with Topanga. He learned that the double standard existed, and it was unquestionably wrong.
In "Chick Like Me," Shawn, as an individual, decides to take on a girl's identity in order to see things from their point of view after a messy date, and is disturbed when he realizes that he, as a person, has not treated girls very respectfully. BMW took a big problem, let one person realize it and then decide to change their individual habits.
"STEM" on the other hand takes on a societal problem, and tries to get too many people to change. People admit they were wrong, kind of, but the only person to actually apologize was Farkle. There's a problem, but instead of handling it one-on-one, they go too big, and when the problem is made worse, the instigators are not called out on it.
If "STEM" had simply featured Riley asking for a new science partner, leaving Farkle by himself, it'd be much better.
Farkle has to confront the fact that he is a report hog, and Riley's new partner could be extremely lazy, not helping her at all, and she ends up getting overwhelmed by the project. She loves science, but she's only human.
Yeah, but BMW's success really comes down to the fact it did lessons, in general, better. I don't really care about the life lessons as such, but I have to admit BMW did it far better. "Wake Up Little Cory, in particular, is one of the few episodes that Topanga totally owned; but I do think the Shawn teasing Cory about 'loving Topanga' at the end frustrated me, as it added to the fact that she's barely in that season except to continue to promote the fact they were getting quite close; in hindsight, as a set up for season 3.
Delete"Chick Like Me" was likewise superb, even better, as though Cory did not treat girls like that, it did still get him to see it from their point of view a bit.
What frustrates me about "STEM" as well, is that Riley wasn't entirely in the right, either. Not with the way she treated Farkle. Farkle is a genius; of course he would have done the science-work. He wasn't snubbing Riley for being a girl, he was doing it for.. not being him. It would have worked a lot better if they'd had someone like Smackle in their class; who could genuinely say "I can do the science better".
I literally only watch this show so I can read your reviews. The fury is tangible in your words, and reading them is very cathartic for me because this show is utter bullshit. I feel so short-changed watching this build-up for TWO AND A HALF GODDAMN YEARS and this is how the writers have decided to solve their own nonsense???
ReplyDeleteWatching this show has become an assault on my eyes. I only hope to continue to watch you both tear into the melodramatic, pretentious crap, which I guess will be this show's only entertainment value.
High five. We have to stay strong, the finale is going to make it all worth it.
DeleteAlso, your pics and gifs are the highlight of my life. Being a millennial watching this show makes me want to drain the tequila bottle in the freezer.
DeleteKara, do you have enough to share with the group?
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThe booze always flows freely at Casa de Hecker. :)
DeleteI think this show must be mercifully be taken out back and put down. The shipping wars that have plagued this show have now gone too far and the only cure for it is to kill the show. Yesterday, the cast filmed the interactive World Meets Girl episode, and the fans got to meet the cast and crew, and essentially give ideas. Well, some fans took it upon themselves to tell Rowan to her face that she's "fake", only friends with Sabrina for publicity and some other stuff that I really don't want to repeat. All this stems from one person, who decided to tweet it, and these fans ran with it directly to Rowan. Who, as you can imagine, broke down after the taping according to something she sent out on Twitter.
ReplyDeleteFor someone to be so callous, all presumably over the fact this Triangle didn't go their way is truly disgusting. This show has to end, simply because I don't think the actors can take much more of this bullshit.
God, how did things get like this? This is just wrong.
DeleteUmm yeah. I mean, I do kinda want the show to continue; but if fans are getting that rabid?
DeleteI never recall any show I watched as a kid getting that bad, but then, that was before social media.
Wow. People suck.
DeleteYeah, audiences now think they know the person. In my youth kids wrote into Power Rangers claiming they would not eat until the Tommy character came back on the show ... which was also rather insane, but at least that hysteria centered around a fictional character that could not be hurt or impacted by the rash decisions of others.
DeleteNow, they see these teens doing all this jazz and hear about dating rumors in their real life and because of how societal norms have shifted, somehow, teens (and really all humans) somehow think they "know" so they have jurisdiction to say truly miserable things.
I especially feel bad for Rowan who seems incredibly empathetic and introspective for her age. Not fair, not right and not good.
^Perfectly said Anonymous.
DeleteIt's also incredibly obvious that Rowan adores her co-stars, Sabrina and Corey in particular.
Whatever "fan" thinks they're being cute or funny by spreading these rumors need to check themselves.
They aren't fans, Shipping. They're over-indulged little pricks who think if things don't go their way, they have free reign to do whatever they want to make themselves feel better. That includes degrading a 15 year old girl who'd just living her dream. Because, you know, that's what they consider rational thinking.
DeleteWith the behavior of those selfish, senseless, compassion-lacking, demanding, spoiled, whiny, entitled, cruel, heartless, mean-spirited, incapable-of-cognitive-thought brats out in the open like this, it makes me wonder whether Disney might change the rules concerning their live shows.
DeleteWhat actually are their rules concerning live shows? Live audiences here, outside of game shows, talk shows and 'reality' shows, are quite rare.
DeleteWill, from what I understand, it all depends on the network and how they want to do live audiences. When it comes to DC, not every episode is in front of an audience, I believe. Tickets are sold, and its treated like any ticketed event. It's just the network has certain rules the audience must follow, or they will be thrown out.
DeleteI hate most of the stuff on this show but honestly? I got a really sweet tingly feeling watching the Lucas/Riley scene at the end. I never felt much chemistry between them up until this point, but there was something really nice about their acting and MOST of the dialogue (it goes downhill when Lucas brings out the ring but before that) that felt real and genuine. There was a sense of nervousness and a tense awkward feeling that felt really teenage and very real. I liked it until Lucas brought out the ring. A lot. I wish I could see more of that on the show.
ReplyDeleteAll the other criticisms I've read are very appropriate and I agree but I feel everyone has overlooked that scene a little bit. I liked it quite a bit.
Unfortunately, Lucas' actions earlier in the episode meant that scene left me cold. It just made me think Riley was making a terrible mistake. Whether it would have worked without his issues about her having "important conversations" with anyone but him, is up for debate; but because he did have that, it just left me think he's either a controlling, or even emotionally abusive boyfriend. Or will be I guess.
DeleteRowan was fantastic in that scene, specifically the line about the sandwich was just perfectly delivered and a wonderfully acted moment ... however, even past the writing flaws, Rowan and Peyton just don't have great chemistry. It was a great effort by Blanchard, but all the factors swirling around it brought the overall impact of the moment down, which is a shame.
DeleteI really liked that scene too. I think it was handled perfectly by the actors themselves, but chemistry and other circumstances dampened it. Rowan was the best thing about the scene, though. And taken out of the episode, and looked at as it's own scene, it was really good.
DeleteThe sad part is that Lucas didn't even choose Riley. Maya had an identity crisis, realized she didn't like Lucas and bowed out to try things with josh. So his "choosing" Riley was cheapened by the fact that he didn't even have a choice anymore. Also If Maya was just pretending to be Riley to see if Lucas was good enough for Riley then it would have made more sense (not to mention had a lot more impact) if Lucas had chosen Riley before Maya's self realization. Now it feels like Lucas's "choice" was made for him by Maya bowing out and Riley kinda "won" by default. I've never been crazy about Lucas and Riley's relationship but this whole episode just leaves me feeling that Lucas doesn't deserve either girl.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, it was clear when Lucas was talking to Maya that he'd already chosen Riley.
DeleteBut that whole Maya is pretending thing just doesn't make sense. Because we've gone from she doesn't even think she's not herself, to her changing has been due to jealousy of Riley, and now we're at I was just seeing if Lucas was good enough. And how does she know that exactly? If Lucas had actually dated her, then she would know. But she knows nothing more than she knows as herself. Except in regards to Riley's own feelings, arguably.
Friar made his choice, and when actually asked what his choice was said that it wasn't just his decision.
DeleteTo which I call bull. Friar is the "point" of the triangle. He is Person A, with Person B and Person C having feelings for him. He is the one who will make the decision.
In short, Friar dodged responsibility again. Just like he's done for the last year. Even if he hadn't thrown that tantrum, and come off as potentially controlling, I wouldn't want him with either girl.
I re-watched the talk between Lucas and Maya. How was it clear he had already chosen Riley? If your talking about his jealousy regarding Evan that wasn't him choosing that was more about his ego.
DeleteIf your talking about the jellybean scene that would imply that he had made up his mind before the trip but then why was he still acting like he couldn't decide throughout the trip.
Look at his reaction when Maya tells him he'd chosen her. It's clear that he's trying to get out of telling Maya that she's wrong on that. Up until that point he's just been saying "Yep." then all of a sudden he's just going "Ummm...."
DeleteAnd he said he -had- decided before the trip. He had decided by the end of Girl Meets Triangle. He was acting like he hadn't decided, from what I can tell, because he's a god-damned coward. Triangles are messy; people get hurt. But people get -more- hurt when you put it off like he's been doing. If Maya had -really- liked him, instead of this fake-out we've got, what he was doing, in deciding but not saying anything, would have caused such ill-feeling, that it probably would have ended up with him being banished by both of them. As is, it's still reprehensible, and I've lost all my patience with the cowboy.
In contrast, in BMW, Cory did genuinely care for Lauren, at least as a friend. But when it came down to it, he had no compunctions in choosing Topanga. Sure, in hindsight he took longer than he should have. But the moment he realised, that was it. No more putting it off.
Whether he had made up his mind and was too much of a coward to just say who he picked or he hadn't made up his mind and Maya bowed out first either way he was being unfair to Riley the girl he supposedly likes. I still don't think he deserves either girl but lets just see where this goes.
DeleteI don't think he deserves either girl either;but for more than just that.
DeleteThis episode was just the culmination of reasons I don't think Lucas deserves either girl.
DeleteGirl Meets I Do has been released on Disney Channel On Demand. If I find a link, I'll post it for you guys.
ReplyDeleteI have to say that I was disappointed in it. It isn't bad, but considering who the guest cast is, I was hoping for more.
Here are some clips I have found: https://www.instagram.com/p/BIvYVAXAkjp/?taken-by=makeluck
https://www.instagram.com/p/BIvY8-0AtFS/?taken-by=makeluck
So I have a question and I apologize if it's been asked already but where are Jack and Mr Turner for Shawns wedding? I know they're going for this whole last minute wedding thing (at least thats the feel from the promo) but if Topanga had time to get old Feenay in from Philly, you'd think she would be able to get Turner from NYC (same damn city) and Jack to fly in from where-ever he is for his brothers wedding. Likely they couldn't get Anthony or Matthew so I'm hoping for at least a mention of their characters, like a throwaway line to explain that Topangerang wasnt able to get them at such short notice
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteRemember, this is supposed to be a spoiler free space. We're not supposed to talk about actual episodes before they air.
DeleteYeah I haven't watched the episode yet. I was basing my comment on the promo for the episode that was released.
Deleteicemanlj2k7-It's hard to tell now because the comment was deleted, but I think I was referring to Corey's comment, and not yours. Sorry for the confusion.
DeleteI've taken a short break from my "The Last of Us" addiction, which is becoming somewhat alarming, to bring you all a gift.
ReplyDeleteGirl Meets I Do Full Episode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRT_7mvWECI
Voices are distorted a tad but I figure most of us know the voices well enough to just imagine them properly.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Deletehttp://vidbull.com/6p4vm9zjj85f.html
DeleteNo distortions
I didn't know TeenNick ran BMW episodes around this time of night...
ReplyDeleteare you one of our canadian friends? it might be a regional thing, tvguide isn't showing me any airings here.
Deleteeither way, super jealous
DeleteTeen Nick shows BMW every weeknight at 9 and 9:30 Sean
DeleteThat is East Coast time.
DeleteWHAT?! And Shipping and I didn't know about this until now?!
DeleteWhy the hell didn't we set the DVR?
then tvguide deserves to go the fuck out of business. which they will, eventually.
DeleteTV Guide hasn't been fun ever since they dropped all their original stuff.
DeleteIt might have been repetitive, but I actually enjoyed watching their countdowns. If memory serves. Boy Meets World cracked their "Top 20 of the Most Memorable Finales."
September schedule tweeted from Disney:
ReplyDeleteDisney Channel Promo @disney_promo · 4 hours ago
Girl Meets World: September 2016
• 9/16 - Girl Meets the Great Lady of New York
• 9/23 - Girl Meets She Don't Like Me
I guess we'll only get 2 a month from here on out since there are only 11 episodes left after "I Do" airs Friday.
Also I heard that "Sassy Haltertop" (airs 8/19) has had its name changed again. It is now "Girl Meets the Real World". Apparently that was the original name which was changed to "Sassy Haltertop" and now has been changed back. Much like "STEM" last season.
Excellent, I've been looking forward to those.
DeleteWhere's the I Do review? Did you hate it so much that you can't bring yourselves to comment? :D
ReplyDeleteYou do know the episode hasn't aired yet, right?
DeleteThese are the comments that never end....they just go on and on, my friends. :)
ReplyDelete