Tuesday, August 22, 2017

The Top 4

Hey guys, sorry it took us so long to post this. Didn't mean to leave you guys in suspense, but we wanted to give the write-ups justice but as our interest in the blog waned it became readily apparent we didn't have the gumption to write character postings for these four the way they deserved to be written. But, here's the ranking nonetheless. We'll say a little something about them.

Sean - write the Shawn and Feeny ones!

1. Cory Matthews

It really surprised me how many people seemed to think anyone else would be Number 1. Yes, Sean's favorite character is Shawn, and yes mine's Eric, but this is clearly Cory's franchise. We found it difficult whittling down Shawn and Eric to a handful of Signature Episodes, with Cory it's literally impossible. Shawn and Eric almost always have fun stuff to do, but the episodes that truly examine them, where they're the ones driving the story... you're probably looking at 20 or so for Shawn, and maybe 10-15 for Eric. And the remaining 100+? Basically all Cory. We take him for granted, and he's few people's favorite character, but Cory's the wheel that keeps this all turning. All the characters have distinct, important relationships with him (well, besides, like... Rachel.) and most of them exist solely as different kinds of foils to Cory. Feeny's old and wise to show that Cory is young and naive, Shawn is edgy and abandoned to show that Cory is safe and beloved, Eric is charming and fun to show that Cory is geeky and awkward. It's all about Cory.

If that's not enough, he also a main character on an entirely different shows. Seriously, even if I could understand someone not thinking Cory would beat Shawn, Eric, and Feeny just ranking BMW characters, how could any of them beat him when you combine them both? Cory's an important part of Girl Meets World - combining the roles of Feeny and Alan in the story (while retaining his own unique personality) to really become a co-lead along with Riley and Maya. Meanwhile, the other three appeared in only like a handful of episodes each. How could they beat Cory? They couldn't.

Also, Cory's a great character. I'm going to hustle past this part, but he's really a lot of fun. If you boil them down to their main role, a lot of shows have characters like Shawn, Feeny, and even Eric. Few shows have someone exactly like Cory. People like Cory are usually fun supporting characters, not male leads. To go through such a traditional boy turning into a man story with such a flawed, neurotic, emotional little weirdo was a real treat.

2. Shawn Hunter


When I think of Shawn, I like to think of episodes like The Eskimo, B&B, Graduation, Turkey Day, The Heart is a Lonely Hunter, right, where we've got this guy who, most of the time, genuinely believes he's worthless trailer trash, but occasionally finds the strength in himself to rise above it, or is finally willing to lean on his friends enough to have them raise him above it. That's the Shawn I love. Especially, regarding the latter part of that, it's not so much that he lets Cory raise him up, but more that he trusts his best friend so much that he's willing to believe in the version of himself that Cory sees. And that's why City Slackers is so great, and why his relationship with Turner is so great, because he also learns to trust Feeny and Turner (and Alan, in those rare magical moments) enough to believe them when they say he can rise above his station. It doesn't matter when Chet tries to give Shawn a pep talk, because Shawn knows better than anyone that Chet's words aren't worth shit. So yeah, it's really the trust Shawn builds for his non-blood family and subsequently trusting their faith in him, that's where the money is. And then it's that exact dynamic that gets spun around when he gets to know Maya. It's that exact thing, where she learns to trust Shawn enough to believe in his vision of her. It's just god damn fantastic, it really is. And there are all these other themes, right, further exploration of family, charity and his pride, poverty, womanizing, I'm just realizing this now but did Shawn get the full course of the deadly sins over the series? I don't think I can place gluttony, but the other six definitely gave Shawn at least one awesome episode each. But I digress.

The problem is, I have this little demon living on my shoulder about Shawn. It's disingenuous to talk about his amazing stories without admitting that The Fugitive happened. Cult Fiction happened, Ode to Holden Caulfield happened, Family Trees happened where he was an alcoholic for all of 20 minutes, his mostly uninspired arc with Angela happened, and his relationship with Jack was never worth more than their scenes with Chet. He worked for the mob for an episode! There is some seriously ridiculous, whiny crap mixed in with the magic, and it's frustrating, especially because I think that's what Rider Strong remembers the most. And I can't really blame him either. It's probably a lot harder to forget Cult Fiction when you actually had to act it out.

I guess the core question is this. Does the fact that Shawn is an unrealistically tortured mess automatically neuter his development arcs? Sure he complains all the time, but incredibly awful shit is constantly happening to him. So maybe it depends how far your suspension of disbelief can go. I honestly don't know. Maybe I just have to watch the series a few more times.


There was some debate about Shawn's placement in the ranking early on, but Girl Meets World pretty much dissolves any chance of debating this placement. After his growth as an adult, his continued relationship with Cory, his new relationships with Maya and (in particular) Katy, on top of everything from Boy Meets World, he is unambiguously in the top two.

3. George Feeny

Copying from a comment I wrote earlier, for Feeny I wanted to talk about his running theme of love, in particular when he lectures Cory in the pilot, "You SHREWD little observer of the human condition, having lived SO little, have already figured out the greatest mystery in the universe?" Or something like that, that's from memory. And in City Slackers his romantic diary helps Shawn finally relate to him, Eric consistently relates to him in romantic matters, it goes on and on. It's not his most important character trait, but it doesn't get the recognition it deserves so I wanted to shine some light on it. This short paragraph is obviously still not the recognition it deserves, but hopefully you'll keep an eye open for it the next time you watch the show.

We all know why Feeny is great. He's a legend. People who barely watch this show know who he is and they love him. More importantly, they love what he represents. And if absolutely nothing else, this show managed to convince people of the importance of great teachers. Girl Meets World tried to do that and mostly failed, so let's not make the mistake of thinking it's a minor accomplishment. 

I keep thinking that I should start this epic description of Feeny being this teacher who's stern but fair but wise but kind and so on, but you guys know all that already. This isn't baby's first Feeny discussion, and the real heart of the truth is that he means something special to all of us. I'm not going to tell you what makes him special because you already know. Even if it's different from what makes him special to me. 

As far as the rankings go, like Christian says in the Eric section, his influence reaches far and wide. To everyone. Except Amy. He is a relentless force for good and wisdom for seven straight seasons, and that kind of consistency should honestly be impossible. Ultimately, he's behind Shawn and Cory because he's never really the focus. The show isn't about Feeny. He does still meet the world on occasion, thanks to the other fellows on this list, but not enough to be placed above Cory or Shawn. 

4. Eric Matthews

With the possible exception of Will Friedle, there is no one who likes Eric Matthews more than I do. But Eric had to be fourth. Is he the funniest character on this, a comedy show? Absolutely. Without question. But while he's always funny, and usually hilarious, the facts are that the truly great Eric existed in only two seasons: Season 4 and 5. Season 1 is basically a different guy, Season 2 and 3 feel like beta-versions, Season 6 started to go downhill, and Season 7 hit the bottom of the hill and crashed and burned. The Eric we got in GMW was sort of a grab-bag of the different kinds of Eric, but ultimately more latter days Eric than anything else.

Shawn wasn't always consistently written either, but he usually was, and he did feel like he had one long arc - even if that arc involved him having to re-learn lessons a lot, and even if that arc involved him being awfully annoying at times. Eric's Season 3 to 4 arc is, in my opinion, better told than Shawn's was on his best day. But it lacked the consistency, the longevity, the overall impact, and the legacy of Shawn's arc. 

Plus day-to-day, Shawn was usually just more important. The strength of Eric is how he could be used in any situation and bounce off any character and be fun. So, they often have him bounce off people in B stories, because usually Cory and Shawn are leading the A story. So he just feels less focused on. It's mainly a show about Cory going to school, and half the time Cory and Eric weren't in the same school. That's gonna mean less Eric.

Eric and Feeny was closer, but ultimately the show's focus on the importance of teachers and mentors (embodied by Feeny) the way he ultimately has become kind of a pop culture teacher icon, and his lasting legacy of the same on GMW pushed him over the edge. Plus, really, I think Feeny winds up with more significant well-developed relationships on BMW than Eric does. Eric barely interacts with half the cast. Feeny interacts with everyone.

344 comments:

  1. Also, I definitely have more I want to say, but I'll wait till tomorrow to finish my thoughts. (What can I say? I majored in English, and I can get very particular about writing)

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  2. Shipping Wars Are StupidAugust 22, 2017 at 8:37 PM

    Well done boys.

    This was much shorter than I was anticipating and you know what? I think that is for the best. Let's get real. Sean, Christian, Cryptid, me, Pwfan, I assume, and several others...we've been fans of this show for years, over a decade for some of us. We don't NEED to go in detail about why these characters are amazing. We have Cory Fucking Matthew, the everyman of our franchise. He's not the favorite, he's not the coolest, the smartest, or the funniest. But you know what? He's for us.

    Shawn and Eric. God, we covered them to death in the TOP CHARACTER BATTLE we did back in Season 2 of Girl Meets World. The time where Lucas Friar was such a shit character that he lost to Charlie Fucking Gardner. There's nothing to add that you two haven't already. They were just great kids who grew into great young adults who have grown into fine men. They did it. They fucking did it and we got to see it.

    Feeny. Fucking Feeny. This man. This god. This TITAN. I adored Feeny for so many reasons. Here is this guy who has been dealt with some sadness in his rarely touched upon backstory. A beautiful first marriage but we never meet his wife. We never know how she died or when. It was likely early. Feeny never had children. Instead, his students were his children. He challenged them and he pushed them. He showed that they could be more. As I paraphrase a Dr. Percival Cox, he wanted our BEST, not for him or anybody else but for US to see what we can do. Best teacher on any television program ever.

    Now, on to you two. Sean and Christian.

    Christian. From the bottom of my heart, thank you. Thank you for the laughs and for creating a place for nontraditional fans of a Disney show to talk about what we liked, what we hated, and oh how we hated, and what made a difference for us. This blog was "Girl Meets World Reviewed" but it was bigger than that. When I first started working in news as a weekend associate producer, I was the bottom of the food chain and it was incredibly difficult for a long time for me to come out of my shell. This blog really helped me through a few hard nights. I'm sure it did for a lot of us.

    As I write this, I realize that I've been following Sean's work for three and half years. I can't think of any other web medium that I've been that consistently dedicated to. Sean, my man. What else can I possibly say? Your work has influenced my own writing. Your sense of humor and how much you care is infectious. Thank you for letting us be part of your journey.

    To the both of you, I wish nothing but the best. Christian in Chicago and Sean, rocking it one state over at motherfucking Dartmouth. Thank you for the incredible run and it's been an incredible experience. I will continue to come back and here to go through the old threads and to laugh and remember what we all found here.

    Now, in the words of a spiky haired pyromaniac: "Let's meet again in the next life." (Fuck you Sean for getting me hooked on Kingdom Hearts again.)

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    1. Oh yeah, we did that character battle thing. That's a good point, I feel better about not writing so much now. We did a whooooole lotta talkin back then. The support really means a lot, I'm sure we'll keep seeing plenty of each other here and there. I doubt Christian and I will ever run out of things to post here, if you all don't mind being patient <3

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    2. Henry danger does suck right people think Raven and chelsa are gay. So Sean you think Riley and Maya are gay or not?

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    3. I don't mean to speak for Sean, but:

      1. I don't know who Henry Danger is. I don't think Sean does either. As he's not a Boy Meets World or Girl Meets World character, you're on the wrong blog.

      2. Raven and Chelsea are characters from That's So Raven and it's sequel I believe. Neither of us watches that show, we have no opinions on if they're gay. Once again, wrong blog.

      3. No. We don't think Riley and Maya are gay. I thought it'd be cool if they were, but the show never depicted them as anything but straight.

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    4. "3. No. We don't think Riley and Maya are gay. I thought it'd be cool if they were, but the show never depicted them as anything but straight."

      Personally, I never wanted this, primarily due to the changes it would bring in the Duo's dynamic.

      One of the chief jokes of the Cory-Shawn dynamic was that they acted as if they were a couple, including petty "break-ups."

      The nature of this sort of friendship was characteristic of a lot of the friendships in the Feeny-verse, including Eric and Jack Hunter to a degree, and Riley and Maya's friendship.

      Turning this into genuine romance takes something away, from my perspective.

      Also, Maya seemed a bit more controlling of Riley while also being more dependent on their friendship. I don't think it would have worked.

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    5. Cryptid - I don't know if I would apply that to Riley and Maya's friendship. I never heard anyone call them lovers or say things like "Stop it, you're just friends" if they were being overly affectionate. They were always looked at as this amazing friendship we should all strive to have. I wish at one point, Topanga or Shawn or Zay or Smackle would have pointed out how weird their friendship was but it never happened.

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    6. Mike Anderson! Long time no see!

      Hmmm, that's a fair point, Mike, but the Cory-Shawn bromance casts such a large shadow on the franchise that it's a relatively short jump to apply it to Riley and Maya's.

      And since Maya was consistently referred to as "Riley's Shawn" (A comparison that, while understandable, is a bit too kind to Maya, given that she is very, very different from Shawn), for better or worse, the comparisons are inevitable.

      And I do think there was an occasional comment about them being too close. "Girl Meets Belief" did have Friar mention that maybe Riley and Maya were "too close" given the way they acted when they were on a "break."

      Of course, to talk at length about Cory and Shawn's dynamic and how it compares to Riley and Maya's will require a bit more time to articulate my thoughts (and I'd like to organize my thoughts for Shawn specifically, as well). I shall return in due time.

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    7. Whilst in-universe Maya/Riley was never called out as being weird (partly because I think the stereotype is that girls have that really close friendship more easily - whether that's true or not isn't something I'm going to get into, but it is the stereotype); but fandom seems more willing to entertain Maya/Riley than Cory/Shawn - possibly because Riley's love interest is Lucas, whilst Cory had Topanga. No matter where you stand on the soulmate issue, or who's more important to him - Shawn or Topanga, she is clearly a better love interest than Lucas. She's actually quite a strong one, especially for a mid-to-late 90s show.

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  3. You guys rock. Thank you both for your dedication to covering and analyzing Boy and Girl Meets World in an intelligent and fun way that no one has taken the time to do before.

    It's hard to believe how long I've been following this and Sean's BMW blog, when I discovered the BMW blog Sean had only just started reviewing season 2. Both of your analyses have helped me learn to take a critical and more thoughtful eye not just toward BMW but to other media I consume and even the people around me. This writeup may have taken a while but it was more than worth the wait. I look forward to everything you guys do in the future and wish you both the best of luck. Keep kicking ass.

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    1. Thanks a lot man. I got nothin but love for you.

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  4. Damm blog ate my post! - Let me see if I can recall it.

    I was really beginning to think we would never see this post. Six months since the last one made me think that your real life had gotten the better of your blogger selves. Thanks for hanging tough and finishing.

    I have to say that I completely agree with the rankings, in part because they matched what I had predicted so long ago, and in part because your write-ups are persuasive enough to convince me if I had a different opinion. Truthfully I believe I had predicted you two would rank them 4-Cory 3-Feeney 2-Eric 1-Shawn mostly because of how much the two of you like Shawn and Eric but I'm glad to see that journalistic integrity won out in the end.

    And now to the inevitable; the realization that this is probably the last new post this blog will ever see. It is disappointing on a number of levels. One of them being that the show is really over and the other the thought that I made some (unknown) friends here and will miss the discourse we had for a few years. That more than anything will be missed.

    Perhaps when GMW finally wins the Emmy Award in September we can have a small reunion post as the world realizes what we knew, the Meets World universe was pretty good TV.

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    1. "Damm blog ate my post! - Let me see if I can recall it."

      I always hate it when that happens. Good to see you again 1960, it's been quite a while.

      Even if this is the last blog post for a while, there's nothing saying we have to say good-bye to each other. I really do value the friendships we've all made here, and I don't want to lose anyone.

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    2. I've said it before; I'd miss the people here if people totally stopped posting. I was always frustrated I found the BMW blog well after it had finished; though reading the old reviews was intriguing.

      But to continue on with my thoughts from the previous post, I do still think Shawn was better than Eric in just BMW. Mostly because of generally more consistent; and the fact that the 'slacker has to try harder' story loses a bit when he's in a different year to the rest of the cast.

      As well as that yeah, someone that smart shouldn't realistically have to try -that- hard. I've never been fond of stories where the only reason someone struggles to get into college is due to being lazy.

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    3. I don't agree that someone that smart shouldn't realistically have to try that hard. I mean, he's smart, but he's not, like, a super genius. But if you literally just... don't do your assignments, don't read the material, and don't listen in class, you're not going to do well. I've always found that hard work takes you a LOT further in life than intelligence.

      "Mostly because of generally more consistent; and the fact that the 'slacker has to try harder' story loses a bit when he's in a different year to the rest of the cast."

      What Eric's version of the story had over Shawn's, though, in my opinion, was the dynamic with his parents. Eric struggling with his parents' disappointment, fighting with them over his direction, and ultimately making them proud is where a lot of the emotional resonance of Eric's slacker story comes from, and Shawn doesn't have any of that. Virna's not around, and Chet doesn't really expect or ask for any scholastic achievement from Shawn. So, sure, when Shawn does well he gets to make, like, Feeny proud (which is great, don't get me wrong) but Eric gets that *plus* his family.

      Also, I think what bothers me is that "slacker who's smart but doesn't try" was Eric's thing and then Shawn co-opted it. Shawn's already got his whole abandonment/wrong-side-of-the-track/troublemaker issues. I feel like they didn't need to give him Eric's struggles on top of all that. I get that "kid who gets in trouble a lot" is a short hop to "kid who doesn't work hard." but it doesn't necessarily have to be.

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    4. Yeah it's tricky looking at Shawn's journey to college against Eric's. "slacker who's smart but doesn't try" doesn't really match Shawn imo, I think that is entirely Eric. In fact, Shawn tries pretty damn hard every time he finds something he likes. B&B, working for the mob, photography, philosophy, poetry. Dana and Angela too, actually. Shawn consistently works for what he wants. The trick was getting him to want to go to college. To quote the Eskimo, "He'll never go to college because you want him to. HE has to want to."

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    5. I agree. It makes more sense with an Eric thing. Shawn came from nothing and has had to struggle for everything he's ever gotten, he doesn't seem like someone who would be lazy. Eric, on the other hand, was spoiled and coddled growing up. Everything was handed to him or made easier for him. So, it makes sense that despite being smart he wouldn't really know how to try hard.

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    6. For Shawn, I think it was always more an issue of him not feeling he belongs at school. That because of where he's from and how he group he's just not cut out for it and should just accept i.

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    7. That was supposed to be "how he grew up", and it became "how he group". I'm keeping it.

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    8. i seen how u group Christian

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    9. everybody knows how you group

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    10. My English major senses are tingling...

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  5. I will get more into this tomorrow; because Friday nights I don't go online much, and I'm off to work right now.

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  6. I echo the sentiments above for Christian and Sean, their blog, and the friends I've made and conversations I've had here over the last two years. I have really appreciated it all.

    As long as there is some activity, I'll stick around. If nothing else, I will want to put a bow on my GMW experience.

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    1. Same here, Milestones. My friend, how long it's been. We've had some really great talks, and I doubt I'd have visited this blog nearly as often as I've had if it weren't for you.

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    2. Hey Cryptid, my friend. I feel the same, even if I haven't held up my end lately. It has been a while.

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  7. I started following Sean at the beginning of my year off after high school. I would spend my days eating Cocoa Puffs on the couch and my nights checking the blog to see if I could spend a bit more time with some friends. Reading as Sean worked his way through the episodes and reflected on the show helped me reflect on my own life and decide to take off the bathrobe and stop only being a Good Looking Guy in my dreams. "Thank you, daddy."

    Girl Meets World was announced when I was a senior in high school, I think, and by the time it premiered I was nearly in university. Eventually, I was watching the episodes because I knew I could come to this blog afterward and spend a little bit more time with you guys.

    I'm going into my third year at university now, but I'll never forget the time I was lying in my bed at 4 pm because I had just woken up and saw Sean's post on iMDB (rip) saying that he was reviewing the show. I spent the rest of the day catching up to where he was, the middle of season one, and now I associate all sorts of times of my life with both this blog and BMW. I was so fascinated to see someone take initiative and create and follow through with a project like this. Obviously, as you can tell from the saccharine comments, we all needed it. Thanks, guys.

    I'll be waiting in Central Park for the next blog post to sneak up on me. See you then.

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  8. So, my thoughts.

    Firstly, Cory is far from my favourite character; but it is his show. I don't have as many issues as my partner, but he really annoys me at times.

    So, the Shawn vs Eric thing. I still think if it was -just- BMW, Shawn would still be ahead of Eric, but it would be much tighter. I just don't think that that one 'slacker made good' storyline is enough - especially as he slipped straight back into slacker mode once he got into college. Yeah, Shawn co-opted Eric's thing a bit, but I still think he's better even without it; when you look at the entirety of the original show. When you include GMW it's no contest.

    Eric... yeah, Eric was poorly done in GMW. But he wasn't the only victim of this. As one of only two people who were regulars at least, of both shows, Topanga really should have challenged for a higher position. But her treatment on GMW, with the exception of a few special episodes, is terrible. And on BMW, a few too many of her stories were really Cory's stories, she was just being used to tell them. There were admittedly a few in season 7 which was really 'their' story, but that's not quite the same.

    So I will have to agree with the top 4, but I think the gap from third to fourth is huge; especially if it's the entire franchise not just BMW.

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    1. You've mentioned that Cory isn't your favorite character before, Will. If memory serves I think you said Shawn was your favorite, but that was quite a while ago.

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    2. Yeah, Shawn would be my favourite all over, though Eric, Feeny, Turner and even Topanga have individual episodes where they are pretty much my favourites.

      My son likes Eric the most.

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  9. I'd like to give a little of my thoughts on each character now, given that this is a Final 4 Character Countdown.

    Eric Matthews. God I love Eric Matthews. With all due respect Christian, I'm not sure which one of us loves Eric more (and in all honesty, I think Will Friedle has us both hosed).

    Eric's story has its inconsistencies yes, but it's still a joy to watch.

    Everybody brings up his college story, and yes, it is a good one, but for me, Eric Matthews' story is about a boy who became a man, who wanted to be seen as a man. A man who first wanted to become of the world, but later realized he had to make it better.

    Let me explain. In early episodes, Eric was seen from Cory's eyes as "the cool, older brother." And in some respects, Eric was. But in others, it's clear that Eric's not nearly so cool as he tries to be. He's obsessed with appearances--from his relishing "owning Cory" due to his knowledge of Cory's awful haircut in "Cory's Alternative Friends" to his desperation to hide his lack of a driver's license in "It's A Wonderful Night." But we also see glimpses of the man Eric becomes--he goes out of his way to make sure his father's buck knife is well cared for, when he has no use for it, and indeed, leaving it be wouldn't hurt it. This is a boy who loves his family, even if he'd never dare admit it (yet).

    Season 2 gave us several episodes that I think stand out in regards to Eric. The first were the episodes with Desiree, one of Eric's first girlfriends. Manipulative and vindictive, Desiree is far more villainous in my eyes than Harley Keiner ever was.

    Next was "Danger Boy" and we see once again Eric is trying to impress a girl, and puts Cory on the back burner.

    But the most important in my mind, is "By Hook or By Crook," where Eric is given the answers to his test by his attractive tutor. Eric was willing to take the blame entirely, but what stands out most is Mr. Feeny's fury that one of his selected tutors would show such disrespect to Eric and his desire to be taken seriously in an academic setting.

    This continued throughout Season 3 with Eric either trying to impress people he really ought not to bother himself with, and in so doing neglecting his family ("Rave On" comes readily to mind) or else finding things he genuinely is good at and can justify investing his time and effort in the internship at the news station.

    And notably--Eric did not get into college. I repeat, Eric didn't get into college. Every other sitcom with a slacker character that wanted to go to college that I can think of had them get into college--Mandy Baxter on "Last Man Standing," Axel Heck on "The Middle," Carmen Lopez on "The George Lopez Show," Hayley Dunphy on "Modern Family."

    But Eric didn't. And this is far the better--he had to earn it. He wasn't given plot armor. He didn't get something he wanted and it wasn't something silly that was played for laughs.

    Sadly, Eric wasn't on GMW very often. I hold no ill will towards Friedle whatsoever--the fact that he actually went back, in spite of his anxiety issues, makes me respect him immensely. It's just a pity that there wasn't really an episode where he was just Uncle Eric--I would have loved to see Silly Eric interact with Riley a bit more often one-on-one. While there was certainly merit in having an adult character whose stories were mostly divorced from that of the children (Eric's intro nonwithstanding), Riley is most definitely his "niche."

    What else can I say about Eric that hasn't already been said, by Sean, by Christian, by us all? Slowly but surely, we saw Eric Matthews become a man. And by God, did I love the journey.

    Also, do you think Eric's the President of the USA in the Feeny-verse now?

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    1. I've discussed why I disagree slightly with your summation of Eric's story a bit; so will just comment on your final question...

      It's somewhat difficult for me to judge, but realistically, I think his rather late nomination, coupled with a lack of any major politicians likely to support his candidacy, suggests to me that he's probably not.

      Though I could more easily see an alternate future where they seriously sit down and plan in advance a nomination for 2020...

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    2. Perhaps, but I really love the idea of what Cory's expression would be if his brother was the President. Or Feeny's expression.

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    3. "Is it too late to entertain moving to London?"

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    4. Probably.

      And even if it weren't, Eric can always ask Minkus to use his private jet to fetch them.

      "Cory, I'm the President! I am throwing out the first pitch at the Phillies/Nationals Game!"

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    5. ....okay, now I sorta want this to have happened. That's much more entertaining than thinking about the relationship tangles that Maya and Riley would have gotten tangled up with over time, even if Lucas is definitely history.

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    6. I can just imagine Eric saying "I'm the President of the United States! Jack, I order you to stop working for the bad guys!"

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    7. -cracks up- Oh gods. That just reminds me of despite the fact that Shawn and Jack were rarely done well; Eric and Jacks' friendship showed Jack as reasonably well-done.

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    8. "That just reminds me of despite the fact that Shawn and Jack were rarely done well;"

      I'll elaborate on that once I articulate a bit more on Eric and Shawn, seeing as Jack, for better or worse, is a main character.

      "Eric and Jacks' friendship showed Jack as reasonably well-done."

      As tempting as it is to make a pun out of that [We're having burgers for dinner], I do agree that Jack had potential.

      But it's definitely funny to see Eric attempt to "abuse" the power of the Presidency to boss his family and friends around.

      "Niche! I'm the President of the United States! You can't root for the Knicks anymore! Root for the Sixers!"

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    9. Hilarious as that would be, the stereotype of the actual president is a bit too much of a 'I can order anyone to do something' that it might be scarier than funny. Though Will Friedle's ability to draw humour out of nearly anything might save it.

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    10. "Hilarious as that would be, the stereotype of the actual president is a bit too much of a 'I can order anyone to do something' that it might be scarier than funny."

      This...is unfortunately very true in real life. But tv isn't real life (College Professor Feeny, anyone?), so I wouldn't be too worried.

      Besides, imagine if Eric does try to boss someone around, and someone else (maybe Topanga, or a very grumpy Feeny) overrules him.

      "Mr. Matthews!"

      "President Matthews, Feeny! Ha!"

      "You cannot force your brother to be your butler!"

      "Can so! I'm the President!"

      "The Constitution forbids it! Did you pay no attention in the US Government portions of my class?! Detention!"

      "Feeny, you can't put me in detention!" (Turns to Cory and whispers "Can he?")

      *Beat*

      "I can't believe I'm the President of the United States and I'm in detention."

      "Though Will Friedle's ability to draw humour out of nearly anything might save it."

      Very true. Friedle could read the phone book and it'd be hilarious.

      Delete
    11. This would make a fantastic spin-off. Eric is the President and Jack is his Chief of Staff. I would watch this show.

      Delete
    12. Topanga has always been both one of his strongest supporters, and harshest critics, depending on the day, so that would work. Though the image of Feeny giving him detention is glorious.

      And I agree with Kit. Wouldn't even need Cory; though guest starring roles for Cory would be welcome.

      "See Topanga! I told you Eric could do it!"

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    13. Will van Roekel-Absolutely. It's mostly the Eric and Jack show. Cory, Riley, and her classmates could visit during a class trip. (This would have to be a multi-part episode). Topanga could be there as a chaperone. I could totally Cory saying "See Topanga! I told you Eric could do it!"

      Delete
    14. As I said in another comment, there have been times, in BMW especially, when Topanga is very supportive of Eric. She's the one who pointed out to Cory that no matter the result, Eric's intentions in arranging for their wedding was sweet. He just wanted his little brother to have the wedding of the century.

      But in GMW particularly, she always acts as though she believes he's useless. Thus massacring -both- of the characters I loved to varying degrees in BMW. I firmly believe Shawn, and Cory to a lesser extent, were the only BMW characters treated right in GMW.

      Delete
    15. "But in GMW particularly, she always acts as though she believes he's useless."

      To be fair, to my recollection, that was really only in "Girl Meets Mr. Squirrels" (if we ignore the tag scene of "Goes to Washington"). And in "Mr. Squirrels," it's entirely possible that Topanga thought she could get to the bottom of the Riley-Maya fight in ten seconds and that Eric was unnecessary to solving the conflict. Which is kind of what happened.

      Eric in "Semi-formal" was completely acceptable.

      Delete
    16. will friedle keeps saying in interviews and panels that you havent seen the last of eric matthews. i wonder if his hinting at a eric matthews show in the future.

      Delete
    17. "will friedle keeps saying in interviews and panels that you havent seen the last of eric matthews. i wonder if his hinting at a eric matthews show in the future"

      I don't think a full fledged show is in the works. Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if more video shorts about Senator (President?) Matthews get released.

      I certainly won't complain if more of these are in the future:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5J4-FhALQA

      Delete
    18. I LOVE the idea of a series of YouTube short films about Senator and/or President Eric Matthews.

      Delete
  10. George Feeny.

    Feeny! Fee-nay! Fe-he-he-he-nay! FEEEE-NEEEY!

    Now that that's out of the way, Mr. Feeny. This man, this titan. Quite possibly the greatest portrayal of any teacher in any sitcom (And probably most other forms of media, but as I've said with Alan Matthews, I don't always think it's fair to compare similar roles across mediums).

    What I love about Feeny is that although he himself doesn't change that much, his relationships do. Quite a bit really.

    When we first met George Feeny, he was both Strict Teacher and Cory's next-door neighbor. And his relationship with Cory was equal parts suffering from the Class Clown, and also Annoying Neighbor. In a lot of ways, Cory and Feeny's relationship reminds me a lot of *Dennis the Menace* with Cory driving Feeny nuts even outside the classroom.

    But what's particularly interesting is that it isn't just Cory who is initially antagonistic with Feeny. As Alan once said (as soon as Cory was out of earshot), Feeny "is a butt." Feeny was strict and stubborn and antagonistic, but also extremely skilled and informed. It isn't often we see that. Usually in media directed towards children (BMW might not have been that entirely, but given its place on the TGIF line-up, children were probably meant to be part of the audience from the beginning) teachers are either set up as near-paragon figures (albeit, this is usually shows directed at very small children) or completely anti-fun, boring squares (Every single Disney show apart from GMW).

    Feeny was, at the time, something unique. A teacher who was a person in his own right, defined just as much by his life outside the classroom. He revered not just education, but actual learning, which is not necessarily the same thing.

    God bless Bill Daniels. I will be eternally grateful for his role in giving us George Feeny.

    And I have to say--I do NOT think that Feeny's legacy was given the respect it was due in Girl Meets World.

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    1. "Titan" is a good word. I definitely agree with your last sentence. Look guys, the girls are doing the feeny call! Clearly that's what's important about his character!

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    2. Yup! Eric's whole thing is he does the Feeny call and has an altar ego he likes to dress up as called Plays With Squirrels. PWS shows up once an episode to offer sage advice, and Eric always has to be careful not to let the kids discover he's really Plays With Squirrels. Dramatically in the last episode, he reveals he's been PWS all along. But along the way there's a lot of fun hijinks and near misses as Eric keeps the gang guessing!

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    3. I don't use the term "titan" lightly, Sean. And I should point out that Shipping Wars used it too--and it means even more to him than it does to me.

      We went to a prep school and I don't say this lightly when I say I've seen my share of teachers who are up to Feeny's calibre. It's really my brother's story to tell, so I'll leave it at that.

      "Look guys, the girls are doing the feeny call! Clearly that's what's important about his character!"

      I didn't mind this too much--but I think it was a mistake to have Maya join in. The Feeny Call was something unique to Eric, but if any one should be allowed to continue it, it should be Riley (or possibly Josh).

      What bothered me more was the overall nature of the classrooms--though compared to the shows GMW aired alongside, Cory is a darned college professor.

      "Yup! Eric's whole thing is he does the Feeny call and has an altar ego he likes to dress up as called Plays With Squirrels. PWS shows up once an episode to offer sage advice, and Eric always has to be careful not to let the kids discover he's really Plays With Squirrels. Dramatically in the last episode, he reveals he's been PWS all along. But along the way there's a lot of fun hijinks and near misses as Eric keeps the gang guessing!"

      Wait, what about Good Looking Guy? Is that the alter-alter ego?

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    4. My issue with Riley doing it is how? Even though I can see Eric having spent more time with Riley when she was younger, the chance of him doing the Feeny-call around them seems small. Given the impression is given that in that episode was the first time they'd met Feeny, and the chance of Eric breaking it out 'just in case' they ever met him seems ridiculously small. Was it some sort of ancestral memory?

      Josh would have been fine though; as I could see Eric possibly doing it around Josh when he was younger.

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    5. I will never be okay with anyone other than Eric doing it.

      Delete
    6. "Given the impression is given that in that episode was the first time they'd met Feeny,"

      I can't imagine that's true. I mean, sure Maya's probably never met him, but I can't imagine Riley's never met him.

      "I will never be okay with anyone other than Eric doing it."

      What if Mrs. Feeny did the Feeny Call?

      Delete
  11. One of my favourite Feeny scenes was when he was upset that no-one came to visit him when he knew there was a problem. Followed closley by Amy being upset that he never gave her advice... then realising it was because she could figure out the problem herself.

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    1. I think Riley and Maya could have been a couple.

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    2. Could have been? Sure. So could Cory and Shawn. Question is should they have been? I think without the Cory/Shawn aspect I could have been happier with this; but the show kept trying to hammer home this whole 'we're them and they're us' feel, that if they'd gone that way, you'd have to question what they were saying about Cory and Shawn's friendship. And I've always liked the fact Cory and Shawn were such close friends that you could jokingly wonder, but you never seriously considered them as being gay.

      Delete
    3. Davis, what the heck does your comment have anything to do with what Will said about Mr. Feeny?

      Delete
    4. I agree the reply to my comment was confusing, but I took it as they read a comment they wanted to reply to (there was some discussion elsewhere about the concept of Maya/Riley as a couple), and couldn't find that comment so responded to mine.

      Delete
  12. > "Hey guys, sorry it took us so long to post this"

    >>>>> 7 months

    Understatement alert! Well, it could have been much worse, at least. In all seriousness, I've been keeping a tab of this site open on Chrome for the entirety of 2017 so far, refreshing at least once a week, waiting and waiting for the top 4. I was about to just give up and be like "screw it, they probably forgot about this blog by now". But, as I did one final refresh....my hopes and dreams were fulfilled. Thank you, guys, for finally finishing this after eons of procrastination. Even if these write-ups for the characters aren't as long as before (which I preferred), I'm just glad to see them for once.

    I'll check back on this blog every now and then, but for now, this tab can finally be closed. God bless you both.

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    1. well thanks for holding out! I had a feeling no one would ever see this

      Delete
  13. Earlier I thought that Cory did not deserve the top stop, but you convinced me. Christian and Sean: Thank you for an amazing blog. This was a wonderful place to discuss the show.

    This would not have been nearly as wonderful without the other fantastic and amazing commentators who chose to spend their time here. The comments (for the most part) were insightful, well thought out, and made this blog the special place it is.

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    1. Kit why dont you watch andi mack? iwant to know more about my fellow commentors . where did you grow up? what ere your jobs?

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    2. Davis, I've had it.

      Kit does not have to answer your question about why she chooses not to watch "Andi Mack."

      More importantly, and for the third time--this is NOT a generic kids' entertainment blog, and has never been. We DO NOT discuss "Andi Mack" here. There are dozens of blogs that do--if you want to talk about "Andi Mack," then find them.

      More importantly, Sean and Christian have made it clear that they DO NOT want personal information shared on this blog unless it's specifically relevant to the discussion at hand.

      Delete
    3. Cryptid456-Thanks. I thought if I ignored her the problem would go away, but I was wrong.
      Joy-Adults do not always like to reveal private details about themselves on the internet. You should learn to respect people's privacy and not pry. It's one thing if someone volunteers information, but it's a bit rude to ask for it.

      Delete
    4. Sorry, I'm going to agree with Kit and Cryptid on this one. I think I've been pretty patient, and when you've tossed out questions about GMW I've done my best to encourage you in that by responding to those questions.

      But I don't encourage talking about other shows on here, though do overlook the occasional foray into other shows if they have a very strong link - usually this is due to either being part of the original TGIF line-up, or have also had 'sequels' come out in the last few years.

      I also do not encourage pushing of personal details. It's up to people to volunteer it if they wish, and generally, I'd encourage people to do so privately. But don't ask.

      Delete
  14. I'm very sorry my parents have been pain in my ass lately I go to private online Christian school

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    1. I just like Andi Mack and I'm a huge fan of the blog

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    3. It's great that you're a fan of this blog and "Andi Mack" but you can't always combine the things you like. This is a place to talk about GMW.

      Here is a place to discuss Andi Mack. http://forums.previously.tv/forum/3250-andi-mack/

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    4. Hi Joy. You have to understand that we're all pretty much adults here. I'm 25. Christian's older than I am. We only watched Girl Meets World because we loved Boy Meets World. I think we've all done all the talking we're ever going to do about Girl Meets World.

      That being said, you should absolutely go watch Boy Meets World, and then if you want to talk about that, we'll all be here.

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    5. Hey Joy. You're the worst.

      Love,
      Christian

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    6. "I think we've all done all the talking we're ever going to do about Girl Meets World."

      Eh, maybe. I don't know--it's possible to bring up Girl Meets World again, if for no other reason than to elaborate on the intricacies of the Feeny-verse as a whole.

      Delete
    7. Christian-

      Thank you. I've wanted to say something similar multiple times. I was tempted to write "follow the norms of the blog or buzz off", but that seemed way too harsh so I always went a more diplomatic route (hence the list of other places online to talk about current Nick and Disney shows).

      Cryptid456-I like your idea. I think there's more to explore in the Feeny-verse. The people on this blog did pretty well the last time Christian and Sean left us alone on this blog.

      Delete
    8. I think the key takeaway here is... 'we're all adults here'. And respect people's privacy. I get you're struggling with your parents; but given my son is a teenager, and the amount of crap he'd cop from me if he came on to an online forum and ask questions like that, when he's been taught not to answer questions like that to strangers, my sympathy flew out the window with those questions of Kit.

      I was happy to just ignore your questions about other shows I had no interest in, without really commenting on the fact that this is a GMW/BMW or, as Cryptid puts it, Feenyverse blog, but not like that.

      Okay yes, I know this has all been hammered home by now, but I've been at work all day dealing with confidential information in some cases, so couldn't keep my peace. Now I will.

      Delete
    9. Well Christian told me that being nice would be a waste of time and he was right.

      Delete
    10. Can we get back to the Feeny-verse now? Please?

      Delete
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  16. Shawn. Shawn Hunter. Shawn Patrick Hunter.

    While he isn't my favorite character (Hi Eric!), the arc of Shawn Hunter is remarkably pronounced, and probably the best developed of the show (Cory and Topanga's love story, while a saga for the ages, has too many internal inconsistencies to take the crown).

    Shawn's story is what gives true weight to the Feeny-verse. We got our foundation for it early, with "Santa's Little Helper" and by God, it was a great start that only built up from there.

    To elaborate, we learned that Shawn's family was not just not as well-off as Cory's, but that it was genuinely precarious. And we also get our first glimpse into Shawn beyond his role as the dopey kid with the good hair--while not particularly happy about his home life, he especially resents pity. And this allows a level of complexity to the Cory-Shawn dynamic with Cory learning that Shawn just wants to be treated as Shawn (and notably the lesson sticks--however often Cory tries to get Shawn to better himself, we never again see the same self-righteous "charity" from Cory).

    Shawn's not without his flaws of course--and as Mr. Feeny once said, "sometimes the things we complain about the most, are the things we care about the most." Shawn can be a real whiner, and unappreciative, and mind-numbingly stupid. And we love him for it. If Shawn wasn't prone to driving us nuts, I doubt his arc would be quite as pronounced or as memorable.

    As for his role on the sequel show--Shawn worked for the most part.

    I do wish that we could have seen a bit more of UNCLE Shawn, rather than PARENT TRAP Shawn. When we first meet Shawn, he's kind of aloof towards Riley and it upsets her deeply. An adult whom Riley loves, that she thinks doesn't love her back definitely had potential--and it was settled in fifteen minutes.

    As for what I wanted, but didn't get at all--a continuation of the Brothers Hunter. Can we assume Shawn and Jack are estranged from one another, given that neither brother was so much as mentioned in the episodes the other was in?
    Going off that, I think I would have liked Riley trying to reconcile them.

    Having said all that, I was very, very, very, very, very happy to see Shawn fall in love with Katy, a woman who loved him unconditionally and with whom he wanted to build a future. With Angela, there was an element of bitterness and self-pity that was always lingering (I've grown to dislike Angela more in the last couple years). With Katy, and Maya, there's hope.

    Call me a sap, but I do like hope.

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  17. Cryptid456-"As for what I wanted, but didn't get at all--a continuation of the Brothers Hunter. Can we assume Shawn and Jack are estranged from one another, given that neither brother was so much as mentioned in the episodes the other was in?
    Going off that, I think I would have liked Riley trying to reconcile them."

    Picking up from there, I would have loved to see an episode where Riley and Maya try to help Shawn and Jack reconcile, but they end up failing to improve the relationship. The lesson learned would have been some combination of you can't fix everything/some things take more time to fix and have to happen in their own time when people are ready.

    Also, I'm a big fan of musicals, so with apologies to Cosmo Brown "You're a sap."
    In case you were wondering, my username comes from Cosmo Brown of "Singin' in the Rain", not the drink cosmopolitan.

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    1. Honestly, I know Maya has the whole Shawn's her dad thing now, but I would have liked it to have been just Riley, at least as the driving force. I see Maya's relationship with Shawn more being about moving on from the past, then trying to fix it's mistakes. That's a Riley-thing.

      Delete
    2. Yeah, I'm with Will. I wouldn't want Maya to play Master Planner, since that really isn't her style.

      Not to make her sound like a villain [Like I said, I usually like it when a character I like takes actions that I disagree with. Usually], but Maya's scheming has an edge of self-serving to it (Mostly in her interactions with Josh and Shawn, but also to a degree with Riley--"Bay Window" still makes me grind my teeth and it's been well over a year).

      If there is a Hunter Brothers' Reunion Master Plan, Riley has to be at the front of it. And it really only works if she goes it alone.

      Given their previous interactions, I doubt Jack would need that much convincing to try to reach out to Shawn. The bigger question is, how Riley gets into contact with him.

      Sure, Eric probably has his number, but I do enjoy the idea of Riley running into Jack again when she's with Topanga at the law firm for Take-Your-Daughter-To-Work-Day.

      In any event, while I do want Shawn and Jack to reconcile, I'd want Shawn to initially be hostile to it. Riley didn't get in trouble often, and the idea of Shawn being furious with her, for something she genuinely thought was a good idea (as opposed to "Her Monster" when Riley was being a disrespectful little brat), has real potential.
      ****
      "Uncle Shawn, I...I was just trying...to help."

      "I don't want your stupid help! If you want to help me, then keep your stupid ideas in your stupid head and keep your stupid mouth shut!"

      "...."
      ****
      There's also the question of what does Cory do if Riley does something that makes Shawn really angry. In "Home for the Holidays," Cory was nuts for Shawn (and as I recall, Christian was disgruntled with this particular aspect). But things may be different now.

      Delete
    3. But it's also the kind of thing Cory would have tried to do as well. Which of course has the whole 'some mini-Cory' aspect as well.

      The only reason I really forgive Cory in Home for the Holidays is that, regardless of some future times when he slips into it again, the end of that episode truly came across, to me, as finally Cory stating that Topanga was 'his best friend now'. 'I had a great childhood, but you and this family you've given me are everything to me. Am I everything to you?'. It's honestly a talk that logically they would have had before now, but I think it was done partially to answer the fandom - this story was not a continuation of the Cory/Shawn friendship as it was in BMW. It's about Cory's new family, and in regards to him and Shawn, it's how they've evolved their friendship. No matter where you stood on who was more important to him in BMW (I lean towards Topanga honestly; and it's that Shawn does have the tendency to be a whiny little brat at times that has him seeming to pick Shawn), there's no doubt that in GMW, there's no actual contest. Which is why they didn't need that stupid scene in 'I do'.

      Delete
    4. Oh, I absolutely think Cory loves Topanga most and it's always been this way--compare his break-ups with Topanga to the "break-ups" with Shawn. With Cory breaks up with Topanga, it crushes him. He was barely functional after "A Long Walk to Pittsburgh" and was manic during the Season 7 arc. But when Cory and Shawn have a fight, they whine and moan and pout.

      Delete
    5. That's pretty much my thoughts on it; but I do know some people disagree with that. And I think the end of "Home for the Holidays", and to a lesser extent the rest of the episode, was answering those fans. Not only is there the whole 'you're everything to me' but the fact he hadn't really registered Shawn hadn't been around for... however long, don't remember the exact time period right, is also stating that.

      I think I'll let that rest though; at least until you do your Cory write-up.

      Back to Shawn. He is awesome. He -just- tips out Eric as my favourite, but that's probably because I get more vested in is story. Eric is clearly a funnier character; but his development is a bit too weird for me to like him as much. That, and he plays the comedic relief too often and those characters don't do it for me. (Yeah, I know he has some stories where he clearly takes the dramatic centre, but they're not often enough, and fade away entirely at some point during season 5).

      Delete
    6. Cryptid456-"Yeah, I'm with Will. I wouldn't want Maya to play Master Planner, since that really isn't her style."

      I agree, it's just that I have a hard time picturing Riley doing anything this big without Maya. That being said.

      "If there is a Hunter Brothers' Reunion Master Plan, Riley has to be at the front of it. And it really only works if she goes it alone."
      I do like the idea of Maya saying no to the plan and Riley doing it anyway.

      "There's also the question of what does Cory do if Riley does something that makes Shawn really angry."

      I think this is an easy one. After Shawn storms out and Riley is devastated, Topanga says, "I've got this. Go talk to him." She knows better than to make Cory chose between Riley and Shawn, plus it gives the viewers a chance to see a great moment between Riley and Topanga.

      Delete
    7. "I agree, it's just that I have a hard time picturing Riley doing anything this big without Maya"

      True, but one of the more annoying things about GMW is that Riley was almost never allowed to do anything by herself. The Group acted almost entirely as a Group which, while characteristic of Disney shows centered around Groups of Friends, was detrimental to Riley's story as a whole.

      "I do like the idea of Maya saying no to the plan and Riley doing it anyway."
      It may be interesting to bring Kermit back into this. We know that he has another family now and that they do not know that Katy and Maya exist. Which makes Kermit a slimy slug. But could give Maya a reason to argue against Riley's efforts for reconciliation.

      The counterpoint being that Riley believes that families are families, and what if someone WANTS to reconcile?

      Of course, we don't know whether or not the Hunter Brothers are exactly estranged, but given that neither mentioned the other, it isn't that far a stretch (And also, it's Shawn. If Shawn's middle name wasn't Patrick, it'd be Drama).

      "I think this is an easy one. After Shawn storms out and Riley is devastated, Topanga says, "I've got this. Go talk to him." She knows better than to make Cory chose between Riley and Shawn, plus it gives the viewers a chance to see a great moment between Riley and Topanga."

      I want this. I want this badly. Very, very badly. I''ll need a little time to elaborate. I shall return.

      Delete
    8. Cryptid456-I'm glad you enjoyed it. If you want more detail, 10-11 minutes to set up Riley's master plan and have it go horribly wrong.
      5 minutes with Riley and Topanga and then 5 minutes with Cory and Shawn. I would consider intercutting the two conversations. Everyone comes together for the resolution, which is Shawn apologizing for yelling and saying things he shouldn't have said. Riley apologizes for interfering when she shouldn't have.

      Delete
    9. To be honest, that resolution reminds me of everything that was wrong with the show in general, and too much like 'girl meets her monster'. I was livid with the fact they had Topanga apologising to Riley when it was just Riley being a brat, and again, I don't think Shawn should apologise.

      Delete
    10. Will van Roekel-I agree with you about "Girl Meets Her Monster." Riley was in the wrong and Topanga had nothing to apologize for. What I was thinking about and didn't fully explain was that I was picturing Shawn saying something truly awful and crossing a line, possibly even getting a little physical (like pushing her).

      Delete
    11. I get that, but given we were robbed in that one, I would have wanted a chance for Riley to totally and without fail be in the wrong. Have Shawn react in the way he did when Cory went too far; but not worse.

      Delete
    12. With regards to "Girl Meets Her Monster," the intention was to say "See, even if she's angry with Riley, that doesn't mean Topanga doesn't love her."

      Considering that there are many, many fan blogs written by teenagers who claim (with very flimsy evidence and worse grammar) that Topping doesn't like Riley, I'm not surprised that the writers made that choice--especially since Topanga's actress actually wrote that episode.

      Delete
    13. I understand that; but it's both an example of why I rarely follow teen shows, and why I don't like shows that cater too much to the audience. And why in some ways I miss the disconnect there was between a show and it's fans - now through the 'magic' of social media, it's all interwoven and connected. I think that generally the writers are in an almost-impossible position now. If they cater to the fans, people whine that they have. If they don't, they whine that they haven't. And if they don't whine that they did, they whine that they didn't do it in the way they wanted it. Arrow, and the TV Arrowverse in general, is a pretty good example of that.

      Delete
    14. Will van Roekel-"I would have wanted a chance for Riley to totally and without fail be in the wrong."

      I would have loved to have seen this since we didn't get it in "Girl Meets Her Monster." I think breaking curfew with no good excuse (trains/busses were all running fine) would be a good one. What would make it better is if all of them had the same curfew, but Riley's punishment is more severe than her friends (lesson learned: sometimes life isn't fair and different parents have different reactions to the same situation).

      Delete
    15. While I certainly agree that an episode where "Riley to totally and without fail be in the wrong" would have been very nice (though not likely to have happened, the medium of a child-centric sitcom being what it is--it's been a long time since I've seen an episode of any show where a kid made a choice that was considered "completely wrong" in-univesre, regardless of how I felt on it personally).

      In any event, I hardly think "Riley tries to reconcile Shawn with his half-brother" qualifies as a scenario where the audience wouldn't have at least some sympathy for her. (Assuming the brothers are even estranged in the first place. For all we know, Shawn and Jack may be completely cordial, but keep missing meeting up again due to sitcom hijinks [work schedules, over-the-top flight delays, etc]).

      Delete
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  19. I have a secret. I don't care that much about the Feeny call. It was funny, I enjoyed it, but like. So what? A lot of things Eric did were funny. I don't know why that became, like, 'his thing.' I have no attachment to it. If they never mentioned it in GMW I'm not sure I'd have noticed or cared.

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    1. It's pretty much Eric's only running joke. And the fact that Will kind of made it up himself makes it more special.

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    2. "And the fact that Will kind of made it up himself makes it more special."

      Really? I don't remember reading that. Neat.

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    3. I'd read that, somewhere. From what I remember the initial version of it, where he just shouted out for Feeny outside his home, was scripted, but it was Will's idea to continually evolve it.

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    4. "You know the Feeney call really started by it just saying "Mr. Feeny" in the script and I kind of took it from there to where it expanded to be nine minutes long." https://moviepilot.com/p/will-friedle-girl-meets-world-interview/4140165 There's something else that was more along the lines of "yeah it was all me" but I can't find it.

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    5. And here I thought that I couldn't love Will Friedle more. That is beyond awesome.

      Delete
  20. I'm very sorry about the inappropriate comment a I made please forgive me

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  21. Everyone I have a big apology.I said some inappropriate statements not related to BMW. I'M very sorry please forgive me. KIT and Will I respect you and your opinions. You always gave it to me straight. Christian I'm the worse I deserve that but still ouch I will go on an another app to talk.

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  22. Cory. Cory, Cory, Cory, Cory. Cory Matthews.

    Coming of age stories have existed for nearly as long as civilization itself. Television and film, comic books, literature, mythology (Hero's Journey anyone?).

    But Cory manages to be something rather unique. We see him as a young boy and we see him grow, not just into a young man, but into a fully-fledged adult (Admittedly, not often as an actually mature adult as I would have liked, but hey, Cory was never going to be Alan nor should he have been).

    I've read my share of books and seen my share of television, but I don't think I've ever seen a character grow in the way Cory did. Normally, I'm not fond of comparing stories between mediums (Which is why I say Alan Matthews is the best sit-com father, rather than television father overall).

    Cory as a character for me requires more thorough examination--the dynamic with Shawn, the dynamic with Topanga, the dynamic with Riley are all worth their own summations that I will get to in due time.

    Cory in general however is the story of a boy who became a man. But it's also the story of a boy who wanted to be more than what he was. Over and over and over again we see Cory try to change himself, and over and over and over again it backfires. He tries to join the basketball team and winds up second-string; he tries to straighten his hair and winds up with a ridiculous haircut; he tries out for wrestling and is nearly squashed flat.

    I think it's particularly telling that Cory has a love of superheroes. Sure, virtually every preteen boy (and some girls) on every television show imaginable in the 90s read comic books. But with Cory, it seems more real--he is enthralled at the idea of calling his father "Superman" and repeatedly declares himself a hero (As cringe-worthy as the declarations often were--I still groan when Cory says "I was Lid-Boy!")

    In any event, I get the genuine sense of longing that Cory wants to be more.

    And what's truly fascinating is that while Cory always longed to be more, often in superficial ways, he was, and continues to be, dead-set against anyone settling for less. He wanted more for them, but he wanted it to be real.

    Cory Matthews refused to let Shawn Hunter see himself as trailer trash who would never get into college.

    Cory Matthews refused to let Frankie Stechino see himself as only the dumb muscle of a pack of no-good thugs.

    Cory Matthews refused to let Topanga lose her visions of hope and love.

    Cory Matthews.

    I salute him.

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    1. For all his difficulty in choosing between Shawn and Topanga, for all that annoys me at times; it is just about the only TV series I can remember where the best friend and the girlfriend are -not- the same character. For all that his treatment of Topanga at times, I love the fact that it's not a given that he'll always choose Topanga.

      Yeah, his trying to make both happy for Topanga's 16th birthday annoys me, but on the other hand, the fact that he doesn't want to abandon Frankie is admirable.

      When it comes to Topanga, the times I get really annoyed with him is actually is inability on a few occasions, to realise the difference between kissing another girl, and not being quick enough to stop them kissing him. And when he listens to Shawn about relationships - he shouldn't be lecturing Shawn about relationships either because his relationship with Topanga is, as they later point out, freakish - but Shawn shouldn't exactly be lecturing him about them either.

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    2. "When it comes to Topanga, the times I get really annoyed with him is actually is inability on a few occasions, to realise the difference between kissing another girl, and not being quick enough to stop them kissing him. And when he listens to Shawn about relationships - he shouldn't be lecturing Shawn about relationships either because his relationship with Topanga is, as they later point out, freakish - but Shawn shouldn't exactly be lecturing him about them either."

      If there's one thing I've learned, it's that teenagers really shouldn't take advice from one another when it comes to things that are happening to them concurrently, and their given approaches are vastly different.

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    3. To be fair, I am probably reacting stronger to this right now as me, my partner and son just watched 'Heartbreak Cory' last night, which shows off -both- those issues quite clearly.

      It's really fun to hear his 'Ohhhhhhhhhh' when they showed the aftermath of Cory getting off the bus, and then he glanced at both of us saying 'That's -that' letter'.

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    4. That actually is a fair point--individual episodes can sway interpretations of characters if they're recent in our minds.

      I mean, what would someone's impression of Cory be if the most recent episode they saw was "Better Than The Average Cory" as opposed to, say "The Psychotic Episode" (For the record, I'm still disappointed in Cory for calling Alan "average" and it's been a darned decade since I first saw that episode)

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    5. Oh don't get me wrong - those personality traits always annoy me; but I suspect they're annoying me more right now. I mean, to be fair, I don't think he often listens to Shawn when it comes to his love life. In fact, when I first watched through the episode with my partner, I'm pretty sure I recall saying 'The -one- time he listens to Shawn about Topanga, and it's the dumbest thing he's ever done'.

      But generally, yeah. It will impact my viewing on it. Seeing my son's reaction also affects what I think; because he's closer to the age range that the show is really aimed at. (No matter how well it's done as opposed to other shows from that era in regards to parent watchability, it is undeniable that it is aimed primarily at teenagers).

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  23. Riley and farckle had quite the moment in the last Christmas episode so did zay and smackle. And lucaya. Mm Aya got Luca s as secret santa. Would you consider zay and smackle as a couple?

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    1. Sean what's the site for narcissistic parebts

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    2. Zay and smackle ? Thoughts on them being a couple?

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    3. I need you to really hear me when I say this: I don't care about this. I am not interested in the romance of these characters. None of them would make a good couple.

      The website I showed you a while back was reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists

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  24. The Big 4. The Final 4. The only 4 that really matter at the end of the day. The ones who truly shaped the series and left us with the series defining moments. NO disrespect to Alan, Amy, Topanga or even Chet. They all had singular moments of greatness that we all responded to. Yet, at the end of the day, this show is about The Matthews Boys and Shawn dealing with the world, mostly guided by Mr. Feeny. There's no more deserving group to top this list. Well done Sean and Christian.

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  25. I mentioned earlier that I thought that Cory needed a bit more attention. My earlier post was primarily about Cory in general. But given that he's our focal character, and as such as relatively complex dynamics.

    So with that in mind, and owing to my desire to extend these comments for as long as possible, let us begin.

    Cory and Shawn

    The trope of Heterosexual Life Partners is as old as a coming of age story. The earliest example I can think of is from "The Epic of Gilgamesh" which is thousands of years old.

    If not the most iconic aspect of the Feeny-verse, the dynamic duo of Cory and Shawn is still distinctive, especially among its contemporaries. Sometimes serious, sometimes nonsensical, there was always an element of devotion to Cory and Shawn that isn't particularly common.

    It was Sean who first pointed out to me what was truly special about Cory and Shawn's friendship. Nearly four years ago, way back when he was doing "Boy Meets World Review" he posted this on "Santa's Little Helper."

    http://boymeetsworldreviewed.blogspot.com/2013/11/episode-1x10-santas-little-helper.html

    Shawn hates charity and wants respect. Cory wants appreciation and that people hold the same values as him. This forms a level of complexity to their relationship. Usually on a sit-com, when there's strife between friends, it occurs because one character acted extremely stupidly or pettily (not that that was unheard of on BMW). But with Cory and Shawn, it comes down to genuine differences in worldview.

    And this same dynamic happens over and over. Cory and Shawn learn to hold one another in esteem, for who they are. In "The Uninvited," Shawn shrugs off Cory's insecurities that he's too geeky to be Shawn's friend--what matters is that they're friends. In "I Am Not A Crook," they refuse to use petty insults against each other in class elections. In "Wrong Side of the Tracks," Cory is disgusted by the notion that Shawn could consider himself trailer trash.

    One of my very favorite episodes is "Turkey Day," in which this dynamic is fully realized. Cory and Shawn are completely comfortable having Thanksgiving together and both are equally disgusted that their respective parents are so uncomfortable with one another.

    All the while, Shawn is dead set on making sure Cory can respect himself, while Cory is adamant that Shawn can and should strive to be the best version of himself possible.

    And that's not even getting into all the hi-jinks and shenanigans these two dunderheads kept getting into. It is a sitcom after all, and Cory and Shawn on their least funny adventure is still funnier than almost any other kid sitcom. And I think they may have spent more time in detention than out of it--how on earth didn't they get expelled?

    Of all the continued storylines from Boy Meets World that carried over into Girl Meets World, I do have to say that Cory and Shawn's dynamic didn't miss a beat.

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    1. Hey Cryptid, I can't say GMW-specific Cory really did a ton for me, but his scenes with Shawn always paid off.

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    2. Howdy Milestones, long time no chat. Anything to declare in matters of the Feeny-verse?

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    3. I'm sure I will have stuff to say, Cryptid, but it might strongly resemble stuff I've already said.

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    4. I wouldn't be too worried about that, Milestones. Goodness knows, I have a tendency to repeat myself.
      Besides, I've always gotten a lot out of your contributions--you came to the Feeny-verse as an adult, which allowed you to have a very different view of it than those of us who grew up alongside it.

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    5. Cryptid, thanks. It's kind of funny, though I was following along, I was not bothered much by The Joy Problem you guys were having. In part, I think, because I was feeling instead at least some sympathy for another demographic outlier.

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  26. In some ways, I wished they'd celebrated the hetero life-partner a bit more without the 'are Cory and Shawn gay?' jokes - admittedly, this is mainly as fanfiction has become a lot more prevalent since the internet took off, and people's go-to fanfic idea seems to be to take this trope and take it away from heterosexual, and focus more on 'life partner'.

    I keep going to this dynamic though, and questioning why GMW really always struggled to hold it's own, whilst shows like Fuller House, which in some ways is even worse in regards to the 'play on nostalgia' factor than GMW was, and it's this dynamic that I keep returning to. Because the mistake they made was not focusing too much on Cory and Topanga, not even not focusing enough. It was too clearly trying to ape what had gone before.

    I'm not just talking about references though. I'm talking about all this 'Shawn and Cory are -just like- Maya and Riley' - and even ignoring the fact that this is blatantly untrue, it also takes away from things that make them different. Maya can't be rebellious without some character saying 'sounds like something Shawn would do' - despite the fact that I actually believe Maya was actually a lot closer to that line Alan talked about than Shawn ever was.

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    1. Will van Roekel-"I actually believe Maya was actually a lot closer to that line Alan talked about than Shawn ever was."
      Which episode are you talking about? What line did Alan mention? I'm not trying to prove you wrong, I'm just not sure what you're referencing.

      My personal theory is that Auggie brought the show down. They had enough characters to do main-plot/subplot without needing to give Auggie tons of screen time. The problem was that they insisted that all four to six main teen characters be included in someway in every main plot.

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    2. It was a BMW episode; can't remember which one. Alan discussed how Shawn was quite close to being the wrong side of the line which separated 'good' kids from 'bad' kids. He may not have used those exact words; but that was the general sentiment.

      Auggie was fine in theory. The problem was wanting him to have a subplot every single episode. And yeah, insisting on the kids all having equal screen time. I can think of like... once when Morgan had anything even close to a subplot. I'm not saying they had to relegate Auggie quite as thoroughly, but an Auggie subplot should have been rare; and it should not have the result of also sidelining Topanga. Where was this strong, powerful woman that was one of the strongest female role models for kids in the 90s? She grew up to some waif who made the dinner, picked up the kids from school, and yet was still a high-powered lawyer? Gods, Cory, can't you cook? Can't you let your wife actually relax? Pay for a babysitter!

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    3. It was actually a not-uncommon aspect of Alan's dynamic with Shawn. I think it was "The Fugitive" (way back in Season 1) where Alan mentioned that he himself was a bit of a bad kid.

      There was also "If You Can't Be With The One You Love," (the infamous Shawn's-a-ten-minute-alcoholic episode) where Alan was enraged that Cory and Shawn got drunk, and snarled that he "was sick and tired of the influence you have over my kid."

      And that's not even getting into the various general shenanigans that Shawn was a part of--even if half of those shenanigans were Cory's idea in the first place.

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    4. On to Auggie.

      I had no problems with Auggie as a character in himself--Cory and Topanga have a tween daughter and a small son. Makes more sense than having a son who was a year older than Riley (Much as I find the idea of Cory and Topanga having Irish twins charming, you can only stretch the timeline so far--not that a coherent timeline ever stopped these writers before, but I digress)

      I do not believe that Auggie was the show's downfall--that was clearly the blasted Triangle. Also, in a general sense, I think the weakest aspect in the more filler episodes was Riley AND all her friends learning the same lesson--which actually diluted the lessons in themselves (I'll elaborate more once I post on "Cory and Riley," but that won't be for a while)

      Having said that, Will raises a good point in that Auggie had far too many episodes in which he had a subplot. More egregious than that, these subplots usually didn't have much to do with actually interacting with Riley.

      We've all discussed that the extremely affectionate relationship Riley has with Auggie is almost unique among television siblings, and we've all expressed our desire to see this dynamic, which had no true counterpart in Boy Meets World. An episode where Riley willingly takes the blame for something bad Auggie does could have been interesting.

      And I despise and detest how a huge part of Auggie's story was tied into that little witch Ava (I acknowledge that she eventually started treating him not horribly, but the fact remains that the audience was told to laugh at a little girl bullying a little boy for three years).

      With regards to Topanga, I'm only a bit upset that her career as a lawyer got put on back-burner (Really, I wasn't surprised. Objectively speaking, it's pretty characteristic of the medium to have the parents home all the time. Even when he was a Grocery Store Manager, Alan was home at an earlier hour more often than one would expect).

      What made me angrier was that Topanga was used for little more than babysitting. Including watching the aforementioned witch Ava treating her son like a slave. And almost never interacting with Riley (Even factoring in the not unreasonable point that there would be little conflict if Riley went to her mother and got good advise [It is a sitcom after all], it was still shameful that they spent so little time together).

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    5. I have no issue that the lawyer thing didn't pan out much. Though one episode of it might have been nice - Alan did get that at least. What -did- frustrate me was that she was home before Cory; but yet there's a strong implication a couple of times that she was still a highly-successful lawyer.

      The problem was they set up very early on that Riley wasn't really rebellious. Cory and Topanga called it out; even Cory was rebellious compared to Riley. If they hadn't set up the dynamic that she'd always do what her parents said; you could have brought Topanga in more.

      And yeah, Auggie's subplots always involving Ava annoyed me - even with the divorce and her improvements, she shouldn't have taken so much of every single episode.

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    6. Will van Roekel-"Alan discussed how Shawn was quite close to being the wrong side of the line which separated 'good' kids from 'bad' kids."
      I don't remember the exact episode either, but I do sort of remember the conversation now that you explained it better.

      Cryptid456-
      "We've all discussed that the extremely affectionate relationship Riley has with Auggie is almost unique among television siblings, and we've all expressed our desire to see this dynamic, which had no true counterpart in Boy Meets World. An episode where Riley willingly takes the blame for something bad Auggie does could have been interesting."

      This would have been great to explore in greater detail. It would have been a way to include Auggie without dragging the show down. You would have needed more home based episodes for this to work, and also the writers would have to accept that not all of Riley's friends would be learning the lesson. It totally could have worked. Riley taking the blame for Auggie would have been a fantastic episode.

      "And I despise and detest how a huge part of Auggie's story was tied into that little witch Ava (I acknowledge that she eventually started treating him not horribly, but the fact remains that the audience was told to laugh at a little girl bullying a little boy for three years)."

      Agreed. I despised that Ava was way too close to dated Jewish stereotypes (Jewish American Princess). I can't believe no one noticed or did anything about it during the show's entire run. It just felt wrong and almost uncomfortable to watch.

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  28. Shipping Wars Are StupidSeptember 7, 2017 at 7:30 PM

    Looking at this again, I am not surprised Shawn and Eric are ranked 2nd and 4th. I mean, Shawn's hair alone should be worth at least 3rd place.

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  29. Cory and Topanga.

    Possibility the most iconic aspect of Boy Meets World, or at least the most iconic when it originally aired, with its target audience. (Adolescent viewers are adolescent viewers after all, and it wasn't until I was fourteen or so that I truly began to appreciate Feeny, and that's coming from someone who always loved school).

    Moving on.

    While coming of age stories are not exactly uncommon (though Cory himself is not a common main character by any means), I can't think of any where there was this level of commitment between the male lead and his female love interest. Even "Wonder Years" had the main character wind up with somebody different, and countless other shows had characters explore other serious love interests. But with Cory and Topanga, for better or for worse, it was always each other. However annoying this aspect of the show got, it was always there, and a fair bit more unique in its day.

    There's a certain amount of irony in that while Cory and Topanga came "Corpanga," and went on with the narrative of dating since they were two (or smaller...the story of Topanga rescuing Cory from the monkey bars hasn't ret-conned yet, has it? I can't remember), the less I actually liked their scenes as a couple.

    Let me explain--there was a certain...tenderness to the earlier relationship Cory and Topanga had. It helped that they didn't get together until the beginning of Season 3, and Cory had spent the entirety of Season 2 dating several other girls, without much luck. When they got together, and throughout Season 3, it was clear that they were friends who also happened to be dating. There were still bits of this in Season 4, but by the time we got to Season 5, Cory and Topanga were simply a couple and that was it. And Topanga got very few storylines separate from Cory after this.

    That isn't to say I dislike Cory and Topanga--far from it. I still quite enjoy watching them fall in love and get married (minus the Season 7 arc). And while I do wish we could have seen them interact a bit more frequently on GMW, it wasn't particularly often I felt like the scenes we did get between them weren't familiar. They still felt like Cory and Topanga.

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    1. I didn't exactly mind the 'always each other' theme - it was the retconning of 'we've been dating since we were 2' I disliked.

      I didn't even mind they were simply a couple -though I would have preferred an acknowledgement that they worked because they were friends as well.

      What I noticed at some point during season 5, is that the stories I didn't mind with them, is where they were in the background simply as a couple; rather than stories focused on their relationship. So much as I do like them as a couple, I like their interactions when the episode isn't focused on them as a couple more. There are exceptions to this - "Sixteen Candles" is actually quite sweet for example; but "An Affair to Forget" which is a Shawn/Cory story, is simply wonderful with their interactions."I knew when becoming your girlfriend, how important Shawn was. And some things about having a best friend a girlfriend just can't touch". Or something along those lines.

      It's something that's often missed in "romance" stories as well. A girlfriend/boyfriend isn't -always- also the best friend.

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    2. And as for them in GMW, we didn't have them often, but when we did have a loving scene that wasn't a deliberate call-back to BMW; it felt realler than the Riley/Lucas garbage. Even better than Farkle/Isadora who I do like the best of the teen couples in GMW.

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    3. "I didn't even mind they were simply a couple -though I would have preferred an acknowledgement that they worked because they were friends as well."

      Precisely.

      In a way, not mentioning that Cory and Topanga were friends first actually takes a bit from their story. I mean, Shawn tried to emulate Cory and Topanga with Angela, and they certainly weren't friends first

      (You could make the same argument with Katy, which is fair, but the entire Shawn/Katy dynamic is very different than the Shawn/Angela dynamic, to say nothing of Shawn no longer being a teenager, and teenagers being the target audience).

      And while Riley certainly tried to be Friar's friend (If nothing else, the beginning episodes of Season 2 set this up), she had been infatuated with him first, and that influenced the entire foundation of their "friendship" (And Friar was a lousy friend anyway).

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    4. "In a way, not mentioning that Cory and Topanga were friends first actually takes a bit from their story."

      Yeah, I'll agree with that. In fact, a major reason I can buy the 'childhood sweethearts still married 16 years on' is probably because they were friends first.

      And I think Riley tried to be Friar's friend because she'd heard somewhere (possibly from her mother, if not then her grandparents) that friends make better romances.

      I want to be on his side; I really do. But his behaviour in the triangle was atrocious, and his treatment of Zay was pretty crummy at times as well.

      Delete
    5. "And I think Riley tried to be Friar's friend because she'd heard somewhere (possibly from her mother, if not then her grandparents) that friends make better romances."

      This is possible, but to be fair to Riley, I actually remember her trying to build a friendship with Friar even earlier than I originally mentioned.

      One could argue that it began as early as the second episode--"Girl Meets Boy," when Riley realized that "friends talk to each other, but *real* friends listen."

      The problem was that there was very little meat to the friendship. The two of them almost never interacted one on one that indicated a friendship existed outside of Riley's infatuation (Which makes Friar lower than a slug, but I digress).

      This is stark contrast to Cory and Topanga, that ironically established the possibility of romance in a believable fashion co-currently with their becoming friends, if not even before. The fourth episode of the first season was "Cory's Alternative Friends," and had Topanga kiss Cory while he was handcuffed to his locker.

      And there were several episodes with Topanga in them before romance was even hinted at, and even then it was "Model Family" and the very idea of Cory and Topanga getting married (with Shawn and Minkus as their children) was completely played for laughs.

      But it wasn't until the beginning of Season 3 where Cory and Topanga actually started dating.

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    6. The one early problem with continuity though, is that early episodes with her in it, before they started the hints to a romance, had them pretty much at each other's throats. 'She's weird'.

      And with very few exceptions, every season 2 episode she was in contained hints to it; but they do get away with it because they're also establishing them as friends.

      But yeah, the one time Lucas finds out any real hint to who she is, the fabled rant about the Knicks, has him getting a deer in the headlights look. Zay turned out a better friend to her honestly.

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  30. i noticed in season 2 and 3 they tried to make Shawn the "dumb" character. i read that they kind of wrote the characters to be more like the actors personalities. rider liked poetry and road trips so they rote that into the show. i think will friedle is just great at being goofy and funny.

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  31. Do you think any one in the core 6 would be friends with benefits? Lucas and maya farkle and riley just hook up

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    1. Shipping Wars Are StupidSeptember 17, 2017 at 12:44 PM

      Um...no. I can't speak for anyone else here but I don't give a shit about the sexual lives of fictional teenagers for many, many, many, reasons. I suggest if you have ideas for the characters, you can write stories on fanfiction.net. I'll also ask that you stop asking about any "pairings" because there's really nobody here who wants to have that discussion.

      Delete
    2. No.

      Additionally, the very idea runs against everything the Feeny-verse stood for.

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    3. Seriously, no. Let alone both the above comments excellent points; you think anyone who's grown up with Cory and Topanga heavily in their lives would ever think about that?

      To be fair, friends with benefits isn't really something teenagers do so much. Teenagers tend to think that true love happens overnight and are convinced in 'but it's forever for us!' rather than cheap hook-ups. That's more something brought on by cynicism and loss of belief in true love, for the most part.

      Not going to get into a debate about whether that's really true or not, but it is my experience.

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  32. no i mean when they grow up grown ups teens do too want ot be friends with benefits sometimes

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    1. Shipping Wars Are StupidSeptember 18, 2017 at 12:35 PM

      Once again, no. Drop it and move on.

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    2. No.

      What part of "the very idea goes against everything the Feeny-verse stood for" was unclear?

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    3. What part of, don't talk about shipping/hypothetical couples here do you not understand? Do you need the link for PreviouslyTV again? That's a great place to ask all of the questions you have.

      Delete
  33. I was only able to comment once and then I forgot about the whole thing. It really makes me sad how this blog is going to die soon. It was a really great community full of people with interesting, insightful posts. No one was attacked for their views or opinions and no one was harassed for nothing. You guys kept it about the show and I want to thank you for making this comment section fun to go to.

    Also, if Sean or Christian read this, I want to thank the both of you for your interesting reviews. I worked backwards because I found this blog first and went to Sean's BMW blog. I was never so convinced by someone's writing that a show was worth watching and had more to offer, but you guys really made me appreciate Boy Meets World. You even helped influence my own blog writing, so thanks for the memories and creating an environment where people could just have great discussions about a show they all liked. I hope to see you guys in the future on some other blog or project.

    P.S. Should we all name our favorite Girl Meets World episodes and decide what the best season was?

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    1. >P.S. Should we all name our favorite Girl Meets World episodes and decide what the best season was?

      I think so. I intend to keep at least a bit of dialogue here for as long as I can.

      I'm actually in the middle of planning out listing how I rank all GMW episodes. Remember how Sean listed all BMW episodes and ranked them on a scale of "Endless Rewatch Value" to "Never Watch Again"?

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    2. I think ultimately the best season was still probably Season 2, despite the second half not being very good at all. Most of the best episodes come from the top half of Season 2.

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    3. >I think ultimately the best season was still probably Season 2, despite the second half not being very good at all. Most of the best episodes come from the top half of Season 2.

      Objectively speaking...I think you may be right. If we use Yearbook/Semi-formal as the divider, then things never really got better from there. Or at least, not in the general story sense ("Jexica" and "Permanent Record" remain among the best episodes of the show but they're about as filler as you can get).

      But after "Semi-formal," the story didn't pick up until "Texas" and in the meantime we got a bunch of episodes that are either out of order or excessively moralistic. And then the thrice damned Triangle happened.

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    4. Yeah, I agree with the both of you. Season two was really weird, though. It started off with one of the worst episodes of the series, then it has a nice run of some solid, funny episodes (with a few gems) and then after "Yearbook," the quality just slips and scatters around, not really being consistent at all. They'll have "Texas" one week and "Commonism" the next. Then it ends abruptly and awkwardly.

      I think the Triangle definitely slowed things down and the show suffered because of the way they told the story. It's like the writers were never fully committed to it, they just acted like they were.

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    5. >I think the Triangle definitely slowed things down and the show suffered because of the way they told the story. It's like the writers were never fully committed to it, they just acted like they were.

      I mean, to be fair, I doubt they intended it to go on for as long as they did. Uriah Shelton was injured in that motorcycle wreck and out for a year--which meant that two episodes that had Josh in them were re-written at the last minute.

      Not that it changes the extremely awkward situation of "Yearbook" explicitly stated to be at the end of the year, and it's only the halfway point of the season and it's later stated to only be one school year.

      Heck, "Semi-formal" even seemed to foreshadow a Triangle that would have featured Riley struggling between Lucas Friar and Charlie Gardner (which would have been preferable, though not by much)

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    6. Right, the motorcycle accident. I'm wondering how it would have turned out if Joshua had made those episodes. But that still doesn't explain why they would drag it all the way out to season three. I was seriously considering not watching the show anymore after "Ski Lodge."

      Another thing that made the Triangle worse (I don't know if I should blame the writers or Disney Channel) was how badly sequenced the episodes were. You could have three standalone episodes in a row where they don't mention it. Like, the most random episodes like Riley falling in love with a donut or Cory dealing with the pressures of his new job as a math teacher. And then there's an episode where they say, "Lucas has to make a decision. Lucas, decide. Who does Lucas love more, Riley or Maya?" WE GET IT, SHUT UP.

      I never liked "Semi-Formal" as much as everyone else. I've seen it at least twice and it didn't make a strong impression on me. I mean, yeah, it's cool that Jack returned (his scene with Eric at Topanga's was really good) and there were some good jokes, but it didn't do much for me. Charlie had potential, but then they just turned him into a future sex offender in his next appearance. And there's also that irritating scene where Riley wants Maya to tell her how she feels and the beginning of the running gag with Maya's stupid accent.

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    7. "Another thing that made the Triangle worse (I don't know if I should blame the writers or Disney Channel) was how badly sequenced the episodes were."

      I hesitate to put too much blame on the Disney Channel, though I do think there were some factors. But the factors may have been less to do with Disney specifically, and more to do with cable. (Though I thank God that this didn't air on ABC Family--a lot of their channel-specific content is darn near the antithesis of the Feeny-verse)

      Eh, a lot of Disney's sitcoms have only a loose storyline. Some were more serial than others--actual content mattered quite a bit. GMW is pretty slice-of-life, so its episodes often seemed to be...more syndication-friendly.

      The actual airing out of order was certainly the decisions of the channel's executives, for various reasons.

      "STEM" was pulled from the November slot (bizarrely, given that the other shows airing that weekend had "Girl Power" themes), and moved into January, likely to pad the gap between "New Year" and "Bay Window." But that's ratings.

      "I never liked "Semi-Formal" as much as everyone else. I've seen it at least twice and it didn't make a strong impression on me. I mean, yeah, it's cool that Jack returned (his scene with Eric at Topanga's was really good) and there were some good jokes, but it didn't do much for me. Charlie had potential, but then they just turned him into a future sex offender in his next appearance. And there's also that irritating scene where Riley wants Maya to tell her how she feels and the beginning of the running gag with Maya's stupid accent."

      YMMV, though I must say that Matthew Lawerence brought back his A-game and then some with Jack. He was having the time of his life and I wish he could have been back again (sure it doesn't make sense for him to be running around without Eric, but assuming he is a lobbyist of some sort, I did get a kick out of the idea of him arguing a case against Topanga, and then being terrified out of his wits when he realizes who he's actually arguing with)

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    8. It's just that watching it back in 2015/2016, it was bizarre how things were moving. Okay, I see where they're going after "Texas." They're going to keep building up to the next big episode. Okay, they're not. New Year's is here, alright. Okay, this isn't over yet? Fine, I'll give them some more time. Wait, Lucas hasn't talked to Riley and Maya about the New Year's thing in months? What the hell is going on?

      For what it's worth, I liked Jack's appearance and the fact that he questioned whether he made the right career choice. I thought they ruined his character in the last season of BMW when they could have just stuck with his characterization in season five so it was nice to see a better version of him. A Jack/Topanga subplot would have been interesting. A crooked politician against a shark lawyer. You know, it's actually kinda sad when we've sat here and thought of interesting plots that the show would have never considered using.

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    9. The Jack/Topanga plot was another that really might have put more emphasis on the BMW backstory than they wanted. This was meant to be Riley's story, not merely a continuation of Cory's and his friends. Whether that was the right decision can be questioned, but it is what they were hoping for. Which is undoubtedly the reason that when Disney dropped it; they couldn't get anyone else interested - because anyone who might have been, would probably have been more interested with a Cory and the gang continuation - much like Fuller House.

      Whether that's what they were aiming for, the way the triangle panned out turned Friar into one almighty jerk. If he really always knew the way it's implied, and Maya really -did- like him (I know she didn't but....) stringing her along like that was cruel.

      When it comes to triangles it's not a 'decision we all make together' like he kept saying. The one caught in the middle makes that call - whether it's to choose one or not; but he makes the call. When it became apparent he'd known for a while, I lost all respect for him.

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    10. I guess they could have always retooled the show, but I don't think they wanted to. A Different World was in a similar place after season one. There were complaints that the show wasn't accurately portraying life on an HBCU, so they brought in HBCU alum Debbie Allen as a producer, removed/expanded roles of characters, and started tackling contemporary issues of the day. Once that happened, it became one of the best sitcoms of all-time. If it were 2017, a show like A Different World would have been cancelled after season one. I would have wanted them to retool Girl Meets World and become the true successor to Boy Meets World, but they wanted to keep it the same. With all of Fuller House's problems, at least they know who the stars are supposed to be. People don't watch it to hear Max yell or see Jackson get punked by his family.

      I never believed that Lucas would choose Maya. They had one moment in "Texas" but they gave Riley all the moments that mattered. It's just ridiculous how long they dragged out a story that could have been resolved in three or four episodes. This same team of writers that was so adept at handling romance and teen relationships in 1995 had no idea what to do with those topics twenty years later.

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    11. Mike Anderson-
      "A Jack/Topanga subplot would have been interesting. A crooked politician against a shark lawyer. You know, it's actually kinda sad when we've sat here and thought of interesting plots that the show would have never considered using."

      I love your idea for a subplot. Later (after I've looked through an episode guide) I will post my favorite/top 3 episodes of GMW. I will also probably include a list of favorite episodes that we on the blog came up with as well.

      Will van Roekel-
      "The Jack/Topanga plot was another that really might have put more emphasis on the BMW backstory than they wanted."
      As a season long subplot it would have put too much emphasis on BMW characters. However, if it is a single episode subplot there is a way to do it and have to focused on GMW characters. It's possible that Riley knows her mother's a lawyer, but doesn't really understand what she does. Topanga takes Riley to work with her for a day and it's about Riley now being old enough to truly understand (or at least have a better understanding) of what her mother does. The day Riley is there is the day there is a confrontation with Jack. I actually like the idea of the two them engaged in heated negotiation all day (maybe we're seeing the final day of months/weeks of meetings), and then when it's done/resolved Topanga and Jack go out for drinks.

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    12. But it was never -intended- as a true successor to BMW. Don't forget, Disney approached Jacobs with the idea of rebooting it; and instead he did a sequel - but it was never intended as a real sequel. It was always meant to be aimed at the teens of today.

      And yeah, that's my point about Fuller House.By all reports it rates well enough (no actual figures released by Netflix shows, but basing off the fact it keeps getting renewed, and people do talk about it) and that's probably largely because the teens of the original show do have a lot of stories based on them.

      As for adept at handling teen relationships? I'm not sure they ever really were. I love Cory/Topanga, but realistic they are not. Shawn and Eric just bounced from girl to girl, but we didn't really spend any time looking at their relationships.

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    13. Kit - I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's not really a plot that cries out as a good plot for a show you've decided to aim squarely at kids. Not saying whether or not that was a good decision or not; just stating how they were probably thinking.

      Also, if Jack had come back again, the next episode I would have wanted Shawn at least mentioned.

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    14. "I guess they could have always retooled the show, but I don't think they wanted to."

      I've never seen A Different World so I can't comment on that one way or the other. But in my experience, re-tools are...risky. BMW usually had one Big Difference introduced each season and that was enough of a shake-up in the establishment to work.

      Season One: Default

      Season Two: New school, Mr Turner, Principal Feeny

      Season Three: Shawn's living with Turner, Cory starts dating Topanga

      Season Four: Hmmm...not much with Cory is different, but Eric's life in the real world is notable

      Season Five: Jack appears and the Apartment is introduced.

      Season Six: Rachel is introduced and the gang is in college.

      Season Seven: It takes a while to get there, but once Cory and Topagna do get married, their dynamic shifts as well.

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  35. Cory and Mr. Feeny

    This dynamic, or at least this paired with Eric and Shawn's dynamics with Feeny, was a greater aspect of what made the Feeny-verse grand than anything else (Though that isn't to disparage the other wonderful parts of the Feeny-verse at all. To use one example, Alan Matthews is the best sitcom father of modern times and the fact that he himself has flaws makes him a superior character than the paragons of old).

    Feeny and Cory's dynamic is one that starts out as a mixture of a traditional teacher struggling to reign in the class clown and those of neighbors in a vein not unlike "Dennis the Menace."

    Cory, when we first meet him, is frankly a little pain in the ass. And he often went out of his way to antagonize Mr. Feeny. But it's also made very clear early on that Mr. Feeny isn't your average stuck-in-the-mud, grumpy old teacher. I've read before that Bill Daniels was adamant that Mr. Feeny would be treated with respect, if not by Cory, then at least by the writers. And thank God for it--I don't think the first show would have been nearly as good without it.

    One of the most remarkable things about this was how it evolved over the years. One can fairly complain about inconsistent writing in the Feeny-verse, but Cory's dynamic with Feeny, in the grander scheme of things wasn't really one of them.

    However many times Cory "learns so much, every week and is still so stupid," I think it's notable that he is never so casually disrespectful to Feeny as he was in Season One. There's a level of understanding that emerges early on, with Cory realizing that Feeny has a life outside of school. With that said, I'd say the tipping point may have been "Teacher's Bet," when Cory realizes that sometimes a teacher can make a difference, for at least one student, and sometimes that's all the difference in the world.

    The dynamic with Feeny becomes a bit more nuanced as time goes on. One episode that always stood out to me was Season 3's "Life Lessons." Cory was deeply, deeply disturbed by the idea that people would vandalize Mr. Feeny's home. He clearly has reached a point where separating Mr. Feeny the Principal from Mr. Feeny the Neighbor is second-nature. School is school, home is home.

    By the time we get to college, despite the rather ludicrous nature of Mr. Feeny again being his teacher (not that I would have it any other way), it's clear that Cory isn't only his teacher but also his friend.

    And as I've said before, this legacy was not given the respect it was due in GMW.

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    1. I agree with what you wrote. The relationship between Feeny and Cory changed, grew, and developed over time. I'm not sure what you mean about GMW. Do you think the character Feeny wasn't shown the proper respect, or that by trying to force Cory into the Fenny role, the writers misunderstood what made the relationship special and unique, or something else entirely?

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    2. Hmmm...perhaps I could have phrased that a little bit better.

      Feeny stands out in that not only is he a teacher, but he's also a person. While there have been several shows that have acknowledged that teachers are people, BMW was notable in that it did it consistently over seven years--usually it's one or two episodes at best.

      With GMW, Cory is almost always teaching (and doing a piss-poor job at it, but that's beside the point). Even when he's at home, the kids treat almost every interaction as if he's their teacher and this is just another lesson.

      The dynamic that Cory had with Neighbor Feeny was notably different than the one he had with Teacher Feeny (even if both dynamics tended to result in Mr. Feeny thinking "Kids these days"). Feeny ruled his classroom but was a little more casual (a teeny, tiny bit) at home.

      But the dynamic that Cory has with his students is a lot more static. One could argue that having broad stripes with characterization is par for the course on Disney Channel (an accusation that is perfectly valid, truth be told), but that doesn't alleviate the general doldrums I tend to feel when Cory is interacting with the kids at home.

      To answer your questions more directly--education, and by that I mean the pursuit of knowledge, and by extent Mr. Feeny, was not shown with the respect it deserved.

      That said, I think the old writers knew what made the first dynamic special. But Cory wasn't just Teacher. He was also Dad. That's quite a difference from Teacher and Neighbor.

      Of course, one cannot ignore Bill Daniel's role. I doubt BMW would have lasted nearly as long as it did if it weren't for him.

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  36. Cory's separation was rather horrible, in GMW. There's even an episode where he has no lesson and Topanga goes on about how it's 'his day off'. Lessons you give as a parent are very different from those you have as a teacher.

    From a TV perspective, I get why they made him the teacher. But parents should -not- be teachers of their own kids from a school perspective. My mother was a science teacher, and she tutored me on occasion, but she was very vocal about the concept of a parent being a full-time teacher for their own children. It's too hard to do without damaging either the parent/child or teacher/student relationship.

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    1. "Cory's separation was rather horrible, in GMW. There's even an episode where he has no lesson and Topanga goes on about how it's 'his day off'. Lessons you give as a parent are very different from those you have as a teacher."

      I'll get on that in a day or two or a few--seeing as I actually intend to analyze Cory the Dad and Cory the Teacher, and then go onto analyze "Cory and Riley." I want to take the time to articulate what I got out of the franchise I love.

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  37. Cory the Dad

    There's really not very much to say here. We didn't get many scenes at all where Cory was just acting as Riley's daddy, rather than her teacher. As a result, it's harder to quantify.

    Be that as it may, I do think there is a bit of a conversation to be had.

    I think I can say that Cory the Dad, with no real connection to his role as a teacher, only appeared in a few episodes. "Girl Meets Brother" is a good example--Cory is conversational with what he expects from his daughter as a babysitter. "Girl Meets Hurricane" is another good example--in spite of some structural flaws and pacing issues, I got a kick out of Cory giving Shawn Dad Advice in Demolition. And the scene at the end where Riley hugged him "for nothing. And everything" was sweet. Sappier than the sappiest sap from Sapville, but still. I'm nothing if not a sap.

    Generally speaking, Cory is a bit...okay, a lot more easy-going than Alan Matthews ever was. This makes sense of course--Cory was very young when Riley was born, not even twenty-two yet. And while Alan probably wasn't that much older when his own sons were born, the world was a different place.

    And Cory is not Alan, the very idea is absurd. While Ben Savage is capable of many things, I don't think emulating the understated grit that William Russ brought to Alan Matthews is one of them.

    Having said that, the moment in "Girl Meets Her Monster," when Cory lost his patience ("Come on, Riley! Where are you going to go...everything you have, we paid for!") did come pretty darn close into what I wanted when I first heard that Girl Meets World had been green-lit in the first place.

    Unfortunately, there really isn't that much more for me to say about Cory the Dad.

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    1. There were a couple of times in GMW they hinted at there being a 'good cop/bad cop' vibe going with Cory and Topanga as parents - and Cory was clearly the good cop.

      We know Amy was 19 when they got married. I think it's suggested her and Alan at least went to college together. I know continuity is a mess in this franchise at times, but I don't think anything suggests either of those things are wrong. It's supposedly one of the reasons Topanga believed she and Cory could make it despite their age; with her own parents being the primary reason.

      The problem with Cory as a dad is he doesn't often go to a place that will involve conflict. He lets Topanga do that. Demolition is also a pretty good example of how he's not a good role model in many respects, as Topanga was disappointed in Maya, but Cory's failure didn't surprise her.

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    2. "We know Amy was 19 when they got married. I think it's suggested her and Alan at least went to college together."

      Actually, I think the "Amy was 19" thing may have been a ret-con, or possibly an oversight. I think it was "Long Walk to Pittsburgh" when Amy mentioned that she had I think three serious (and presumably relatively long-term) relationships before she even met Alan.

      Setting aside that, and assuming she was 19, Alan didn't go to college. He was a Navy man, and possibly a couple years older than Amy.

      Ah continuity...so sweet, so elusive.

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    3. We never really got to see what the dynamic at home was like. It was almost as if Cory and Riley existed in their school universe which bleed over into home, and Topanga existed mainly in the home universe with Auggie. We had a pretty good sense of Cory's home dynamic, but I wouldn't say the same for Riley.

      I'm not sure how much of what we saw was that the world was a different place when Eric was born, or that Cory and Alan were shaped by vastly different circumstances.

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    4. World was a vastly different place. I was born pretty close to Eric's generation, if not his year of birth - not sure what year that ended up being - my son was born pretty close to Riley's. There's definitely a different circumstances thing happening too, but my father isn't that different to Alan in all honesty, and yet he was a Dutch immigrant who lived in Australia since he was 7, never joined any armed services (as it's not really a thing in Aus to the extent it is in the US), and was an IT professional after dropping out of med school.

      We should probably also consider their respective spouses though - Amy, wonderful as she was, was probably not the fierce lion that Topanga should have been, and was until GMW. And Cory rarely went against her. "I do what she says".

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    5. And damn continuity. I can usually make it all work - I'm a Doctor Who fan for crying out loud - but this franchise's continuity makes my head hurt at times.

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    6. I think both generation and environment have an impact, so it's not an either or. I think both are important factors.
      Will van Roekel-Yeah. I've just kind of made peace with the fact that the writers really didn't care that much about continuity so it's a little bit messed up.

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  38. Shipping Wars Are StupidSeptember 25, 2017 at 2:37 PM

    Okay, I got one.

    Other than The Eskimo, Security Guy or Uncle Daddy, what is everyone's favorite episode?

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    1. Man, I like Uncle Daddy a lot but I wouldn't consider it an obvious top 3. It made neither Sean's nor my Top 10 (but was an Honorable Mention for us both)

      But yeah, the other two are obviously big Sean and Christian episodes (well, Eskimo's a big Sean episode, and Security Guy's a big Sean-and-Christian episode)

      ANYWAY, to answer your question as far as we're concerned, looking back at our top 10 list when we gave this real thought.

      My favorite episode that's not Security Guy: RAGING CORY
      Sean's favorite episode that's not Security Guy or The Eskimo: AN AFFAIR TO FORGET

      Mine's a much better episode than his.

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    2. I still have a major soft spot for Turkey Day.

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    3. Here's the Top 10 List for BMW...wait, I never actually finished mine...:

      https://girlmeetsworldreviewed.blogspot.com/2015/11/christian-and-seans-top-10-boy-meets.html

      Hmmm...

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    4. Yeah mine is definitely Affair to Forget. It's very very very good, and Raging Cory is only very very good.

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    5. As I said before, with regard to Turkey Day:

      "We got Cory-Shawn Bromance, Funny Eric, Present Morgan, Chet Drama, Involved Feeny, Phenomenal Life Lesson from Alan, History Lesson We Can Learn From...

      What's not to like?"

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    6. Wait, Shipping Wars never said what his favorite was...

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    7. I love Raging Cory.

      If I was putting together a top five without those episodes mentioned, I would include The Heart is a Lonely Hunter, Eric Hollywood, part one of A Long Walk to Pittsburgh, and And Then There Was Shawn.

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    8. I have different likes depending on if I'm watching it by myself, with my partner, or with our kid. And if it's purely for entertainment purposes or to make a point to said kid.

      Basically, if it's just me, I'll go for one where Topanga, Cory and Shawn are all there and playing important roles. If it's with my partner, lean towards season 3 or earlier and no 'relationship' episodes from season 4 onwards; because we disagree too much on Topanga's shortcomings. My kid will be Shawn eps, unless it's to make a point, in which case it's likely a lesson Cory actually learns a lesson... that he can't refute by stating 'but in this episode...."

      To be honest, with very few exceptions, mainly from season 6, there are often times I'll gladly pick one particular episode. Long Walk to Pittsburgh is a bit of a funny one though; in that it has some brilliant points, some gorgeous moments, but is guilty of one of the worst retcons. And it is kinda hard to watch just part one.

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    9. Shipping Wars Are StupidSeptember 26, 2017 at 4:47 PM

      Raging Cory is great, but not top 5 worthy. Mediocre Shawn/Jack story and the set-up never felt right for me.

      I'd go with Learning to Fly...

      I also adore Life Lessons.

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    10. Learning to Fly is good; though the resolution makes seasons 5 and 6 quite frustrating at parts.

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    11. Can I get a little love for "Things Change"? It's an excellent episode in its own right, and leads nicely into "Graduation." Say what you will of Season 6 and 7, but Season 5 ends rather well.

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    12. "Raging Cory is great, but not top 5 worthy. Mediocre Shawn/Jack story and the set-up never felt right for me."

      I think the Shawn/Jack story's okay, although admittedly it plays no part in why I love that episode. There's some continuity issues at play there (it's like no matter what time it is for the Matthews family, for the Hunters it's the middle of the night) but in general Shawn and Jack aren't plentiful and this is a nice one that plays on their disparate backgrounds. Plus, we get L'il Cory's triumphant return, despite being an obviously different pig.

      But, the stuff with the Matthews family is just SO good, especially since it's sort of equally about all three. I think part of what I love about it is that you think Cory's going to be the emotional core of the episode, but then it switches to Alan, and *then* it switches to Eric. Rare is the episode where THREE characters get to grow in meaningful distinct ways.

      I'd put Raging Cory ahead of both The Eskimo and Uncle Daddy. The Eskimo, as I know I've said is before, IS good but it's got some problems. I find Feeny's behavior absolutely out of line and bizarre. Yes, it works out but like... in real life, it wouldn't have, so he'd have just been a crazy person. And, I'm just never a fan of self-pitying Shawn so I tend to find his billboard speech a little much. And I don't enjoy Eric and Jack's story at all, since it invents yet another personality for Jack (this time he's Mr. Smart and Sensitive) and whittles Eric's personality down to being an idiot, which I never like. Still it IS good. The Soup or Bowl scene is top notch, and the ending's certainly powerful. Because of how much Shawn loves it, I always find myself in the role of detractor, but it's still, like, a top 25 episode for me.

      As for Uncle Daddy, also an episode I love, and probably one I like better than the Eskimo. Eric's great throughout (as he usually is in Season 4) and even the (minor) subplots are fun so I got no complaints. The only thing that I think keeps it from being an epic Top 10 episode is the lack of impact it has on the series as a whole. Kelly and Ryan didn't exist before that, and despite some implication that maybe Eric and Kelly could have a future down the line, we never see or hear from them again. And with the introduction of Tommy, and Eric's better developed relationship with him, Ryan sort of feels like a Beta-version of him. (Despite, I think, Uncle Daddy likely being a better episode than any of the Tommy ones.)

      I'd also put your choice of Learning to Fly ahead of those two too, Learning to Fly is fantastic, and made my top 10 at Number 8. Probably the best season finale, which is saying something considering heavy hitters like Brother Brother and Graduation.

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    13. "As for Uncle Daddy, also an episode I love, and probably one I like better than the Eskimo. Eric's great throughout (as he usually is in Season 4) and even the (minor) subplots are fun so I got no complaints. The only thing that I think keeps it from being an epic Top 10 episode is the lack of impact it has on the series as a whole. Kelly and Ryan didn't exist before that, and despite some implication that maybe Eric and Kelly could have a future down the line, we never see or hear from them again. And with the introduction of Tommy, and Eric's better developed relationship with him, Ryan sort of feels like a Beta-version of him. (Despite, I think, Uncle Daddy likely being a better episode than any of the Tommy ones.)"

      This is an excellent, excellent point. I love "Uncle Daddy," and can still remember the first time I ever saw it on reruns, but it is pretty stand-alone. That's not necessarily a bad thing--far from it, stand-alone and filler episodes being excellent have a long history in sitcoms.

      But given that we are watching Eric become a man, and his journey was largely one of self-realization. He didn't settle down with a family.

      And I think you are right--Uncle Daddy is better than any of the Tommy episodes.

      I would have loved to have seen an episode of GMW that nodded back to Uncle Daddy.

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    14. Because of how much *Sean loves it

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    15. "But given that we are watching Eric become a man, and his journey was largely one of self-realization. He didn't settle down with a family."

      I'd still like to think he will one day. It's not too late for him, and I think he'd be a really great father and would get a lot out of it.

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    16. "I also adore Life Lessons." Oh, interesting. Good episode certainly, one of the best of Season 3, but not one I think much about. I can't say I prefer it to any of the episodes listed here though. Everything those kids are doing to Feeny seems just.... way, way over-the-top. It's painted like the trio are the only decent human beings in attendance at the school. And then Eric, a high schooler, goes out on a date with like a thirty-something woman? Just a lot of suspension of disbelief needed. But, I mean, certainly any moment that shows a softer side of Feeny and how much he means to them is nice.

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  39. Top 5 Episodes I Wish "Girl Meets World" Had Done:
    1. Riley taking the blame for Auggie
    2. Riley spending a day with Topanga at her office
    3. The girls and boys having separate adventures in the city.
    4. Harley Keiner is a last minute sub for Cory and spends class telling stories about what Cory was like in high school.
    5. An episode with a HUAC vibe (you have to tell on your friends to save yourself or you can stay silent, support your friends and suffer with them).

    NOTE: These ideas are drawn from discussions of various episodes and are not all my original ideas.

    What do you wish they had done? I know we've talked about this before, but I thought I dedicated place to discuss them would be a good idea. I've often thought the people on this blog could do a better job than the actual writers of the show.

    (Sean and Christian-If you hate this and think it crosses a line because it's too close to fan-fiction, I completely understand.)

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    1. To be honest, with the exception of Riley taking the blame for Auggie, I don't like those ideas for full episodes. I have no real ideas for full episodes, I have ideas for concepts. Like less shoehorning everyone in together.

      The only one I really wish they'd done is examined Friar's honest-to-goodness personality in a 'what the heck dude?' kind of way. Not his temper so much - his controlling boyfriend aspect. "All the important conversations are with me" as opposed to, not directly quoting but... "there are some things about a best friend no girlfriend is ever going to touch". Topanga may have her jealous moments of Shawn, and I can't entirely blame her honestly, but Friar gets jealous of a guy who talked with her for a night. And all they did was talk about her friends. Even more than the revelations about the fact he always knew it was Riley, that was the moment that had me lose all respect for him. And I wanted it examined so Riley could realise 'you know, he's not really Prince Charming".

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